Emails related to the embedded linux wireless router<title></head> <body> <pre> From cfb@nirai.ne.jp Wed Mar 10 05:50:40 1999 Return-Path: <cfb@nirai.ne.jp> Received: from nirai.ne.jp (ns01.nirai.ne.jp [202.239.129.83]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id FAA12954 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 05:50:39 -0800 Received: from ocn21.kdd-ok.ne.jp (admin@nhr1-172.nirai.ne.jp [10.1.10.172]) by nirai.ne.jp (8.9.1/3.7W+03/04/99) with ESMTP id WAA15060; Wed, 10 Mar 1999 22:45:56 +0900 (JST) Sender: admin@nirai.ne.jp Message-ID: <32CDA9BC.2751CCD9@ocn21.kdd-ok.ne.jp> Date: Sat, 04 Jan 1997 09:52:12 +0900 From: cfb <cfb@nirai.ne.jp> Reply-To: cfb@nirai.ne.jp Organization: on a stick. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.2 i686) X-Accept-Language: ja, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mtaht@picketwyre.com CC: greg@rage.net Subject: Wireless HOWTO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1572 Hi, I have a couple of question that didn't seem to be covered in the Wireless Router Howto or any of the associated links. First, you mentioned that omni-directional antennas would cost quite a bit more. Is there any particular reason why and do you have any cost figures for omni-directional antennas? Seconds, what's the maximum density for leaf nodes using an omni-directional base station with the Aironet gear? I checked their web site but could not find any specifications. I am very interested in connection two routers configured with omni-directional antannas on both ends (between 3-5 km apart). There is a very good chance that I might be able to put together such a project in the next 3 to 4 months if I am able to find the answers to the above questions ( and other questions I bump into along the way ). I would be more than willing to supply you with feed back and generally contribute to your Wireless Router Howto. I'm also looking for a good supplier of weatherized computer cases for my linux boxen, as the buildings that I will place the routers at would required a cable run longer than 10 feet to get the linux box inside. Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to provide, -cfb From winther@rni.net Mon Apr 19 18:35:07 1999 Return-Path: <winther@rni.net> Received: from mail-00.rni.net (root@mail-00.rni.net [209.180.149.2]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA01704 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:35:06 -0700 Received: from rni.net (IDENT:winther@spankey.rni.net [209.180.149.21]) by mail-00.rni.net (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA06896; Mon, 19 Apr 1999 18:39:16 -0700 Sender: winther@mail-00.rni.net Message-ID: <3521A7DF.E5E4DFD@rni.net> Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:35:11 -0700 From: Matthew Winther <winther@rni.net> Organization: Renaissance Networking Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.36 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mtaht@picketwyre.com, greg@rage.net Subject: wireless router howto Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2737 I am the network engineer and co-founder for a small ISP in Phoenix, AZ. I came across your your HOW-TO today and found it very interesting. We to have been experimenting with wireless internet services. We went through an almost identical scenero as you did. Except that we were actually selling the service to a company so things had to be more bullet proof. We had our link up for 9 months the typical throughput was just under 2Mbit. We were using the lucent cards. We have been thinking of writing a How-To for the project. Now that I have seen your work I was wondering if you would be interested in our contrubutions to the HOW-TO? Have you done any work with 802.11 cards yet? What about point to multi-point or multi-point to multi-point. Matt From agnt0rng@simba.safari.net Thu May 14 20:18:12 1998 -0400 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:24:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org, mtaht@taos.com Subject: Earn cash quick. Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980514171953.843A-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 57 Just had another idea to increase the ROI for our wonderfull wireless link. 'High speed temporary Inet uplinks for events'. Things such as high-tech conventions, concert broadcasts, or anything that needs alot of bandwidth for a short amount of time. Just thought I'd jot it down before it slips my mind. <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From greg@nova.explosive.net Fri Jul 3 16:36:34 1998 -0700 Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 16:34:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: sales@aironet.com, techsupp@aironet.com Subject: Looking for adapters.. Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980703162735.28268A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 412 Hello, We recently purchased a pair of aironet Arlan-655 isa adapters, however we are running into problems attaching these to our existing antennas. We would like to purchase cable adapters that would attach to the back of the arlan card and convert it to a N-type female connector. Please contact us about how/where we can quickly get these components. Thanks! -- Greg From greg@nova.explosive.net Thu Jul 9 17:37:05 1998 -0700 Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 17:35:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org Subject: RE: Looking for adapters.. (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980709173339.16605E-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 421 The answer from aironet. At least now we know what its called (reverse polarity TNC connector). I'd like to track down an adapter (instead of cable ends) so that we can get cable with standard connectors and have the ability to upgrade the cable (or lengthen/shorten) without having to track down new connectors (and having to have the cable custom-made.) -- greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 16:08:59 -0400 From: Tech Support - Aironet <techsupp@telxon.com> To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Subject: RE: Looking for adapters.. Greg: Contact your reseller about buying the Reverse Polarity TNC connectors. We do not make adapter cables due to FCC regulations, but we do sell the connectors for both RG-58 and Belden 9913 coax cable. These must be crimped onto the cable, so you need to know what you are doing. Some of our resellers who are involved with putting up antennas in the communications industry are familiar with making up their own cables to length as well as using different coax cables to connect up to our antennas. The part numbers you would be interested in are as follows: 672-001622 RP-TNC Plug for 9913 672-001623 RP-TNC Jack for 9913 672-001655 RP-TNC Plug for RG-58 672-001828 RP-TNC Jack for RG-58 The connector on the 655 card is considered the "Jack", so you would need a "plug" to connect into it. Dale Williams Aironet Technical Support > ---------- > From: Greg Retkowski[SMTP:greg@rage.net] > Sent: Friday, July 03, 1998 7:34 PM > To: airsales@telxon.com; techsupp@telxon.com > Subject: Looking for adapters.. > > Hello, > We recently purchased a pair of aironet Arlan-655 isa adapters, > however > we are running into problems attaching these to our existing antennas. > We would like to purchase cable adapters that would attach to the back > of > the arlan card and convert it to a N-type female connector. Please > contact > us about how/where we can quickly get these components. Thanks! > > -- Greg > From greg@nova.explosive.net Tue Jul 14 15:31:10 1998 -0700 Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:29:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: kevin@savesmart.com Subject: microwave parts. Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980714152557.18889D-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 444 Here are the $0.69 parts I'm missing. Male Reverse-Polarity TNC to Female N-Type (two of these) That would be ideal, but a Male Reverse-Polarity TNC to anything standard would be close enough. This is to connect to an Aironet Arlan 655 ISA card, which has a Female Reverse-Polarity TNC plug on the back of it. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From kevin@kce.com Wed Jul 15 10:43:16 1998 Return-Path: <kevin@kce.com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id KAA18517 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from corona.beachnet.com ([207.182.224.6]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 103-48840U200L100S0) with ESMTP id AAA18142 for <greg@savesmart.com>; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:41:06 -0700 Received: from kpc-nb.kce.com (nat-19.savesmart.com [207.88.182.19]) by corona.beachnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-34824U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA122 for <greg@savesmart.com>; Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:41:01 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980715104104.00880ea0@mail.beachnet.com> X-Sender: kce-2@mail.beachnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:41:04 -0700 To: greg@savesmart.com From: "Kevin Criqui" <kevin@kce.com> Subject: FW: microwave parts. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 143 >From: Moritz, Chris >Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 4:23 PM >To: 'Kevin Criqui' >Subject: RE: microwave parts. > >I was just looking at the amphenol site, and it looks like they have some reverse polarity parts. > >The deal is, though, that Arlan is using reverse polarity TNCs to prevent users from hooking up higher gain antennas to their products in order to keep the EIRP within FCC limits. > >Chris > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kevin Criqui [SMTP:kevin@kce.com] >Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 4:01 PM >To: Chris (CMOR) Moritz >Subject: FW: microwave parts. > >Hey Chris, > >A guy at work here is trying to set up a microwave link between his house >and a friends place. He's looking for some unusual adapters. Any idea >where he might find them? > > Kevin > >>Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:29:47 -0700 (PDT) >>From: "Greg Retkowski" <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com> >>X-Sender: greg@homeless >>To: kevin@savesmart.com >>Subject: microwave parts. >> >>Here are the $0.69 parts I'm missing. >>Male Reverse-Polarity TNC to Female N-Type (two of these) >>That would be ideal, but a Male Reverse-Polarity TNC to anything standard >>would be close enough. This is to connect to an Aironet Arlan 655 ISA >>card, which has a Female Reverse-Polarity TNC plug on the back of it. >> >>-- Greg >> >><a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> >><a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> >> >> >-- >Kevin Criqui kevin@kce.com >KC Engineering 408-745-1292 >329 Lakechime Drive Fax 408-734-1957 >Sunnyvale, CA 94089 http://www.kce.com > -- Kevin Criqui kevin@kce.com KC Engineering 408-745-1292 329 Lakechime Drive Fax 408-734-1957 Sunnyvale, CA 94089 http://www.kce.com From greg@nova.explosive.net Wed Jul 15 12:18:22 1998 -0700 Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 12:16:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: Kevin Criqui <kevin@kce.com> Subject: Re: FW: microwave parts. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980715104104.00880ea0@mail.beachnet.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980715121241.19318H-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 453 On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Kevin Criqui wrote: > >From: Moritz, Chris > >Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 4:23 PM > >To: 'Kevin Criqui' > >Subject: RE: microwave parts. > > > >I was just looking at the amphenol site, and it looks like they have some > reverse polarity parts. > > > >The deal is, though, that Arlan is using reverse polarity TNCs to prevent > users from hooking up higher gain antennas to their products in order to > keep the EIRP within FCC limits. How unamerican of them *laugh* I ordered the amphenol connectors. Thanks for checking it out. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From greg@nova.explosive.net Tue Jul 21 17:28:10 1998 -0700 Status: X-Status: X-Keywords: Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 17:26:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: Rich Bodo <richbodo@solidobjects.com> Subject: Re: [svlug] Looking for an ISP In-Reply-To: <35B43989.1770@solidobjects.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980721172435.22789L-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Rich, Thanks for the offer. I'm going over to Alvin's office tonight to give it a go from there, if that doesn't pan out then we can work out something. Where is your office on lawrence? Alvin's is up by 101 and I fear that may be outside my range (south of 280 would be ideal). Anyway, I'll keep ya posted! -- greg On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Rich Bodo wrote: > Greg, > > I have three interesting ideas. My office is just off Lawrence, my > brother owns a building smack dab on Lawrence, and I know a guy offering > wireless internet at rf.net. > My brother actually wanted to start up a co-location facility in the > building on lawrence, but couldn't find reliable talent. If you are > interested in doing something like that, I can put you two together. > The guy at rf.net is in mountain view, but may have a transciever near > you, and wants to sell access. > My office has lots of phone lines, but no internet access. We have > been in the building for 10 years, so if we ask nicely, we could > potentially work something out where we put your antenna on our roof and > you could provide us with some degree of internet access? Let me know > what your think. > > -Rich > > Greg Retkowski wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > This is kinda an unusual request, but here it is anyway... I'm looking > > for an ISP or IWB (Individual With Bandwidth) located along lawrence > > expressway. I live up in the santa cruz mountains, and have a great view > > down into the valley along lawrence. Anyway, this far back into the woods, > > they dont have frame-relay. Thus I've had to improvise. I've put together > > a pair of 2.4Ghz 2-megabit wireless routers (using Linux Router Project, > > of course!) and I need someone around lawrence who's interested in hosting > > the other end. You could have the coolest geekware on the block. > > For individuals, we would be willing to defer your bandwidth costs. For > > ISP's we could pay you a reasonable bandwidth/colocation fee, > > alternatively we could provide you with all the assistance to provide this > > as a product to your customers (bypassing the dreaded telco). > > > > Regardless, once we got the stuff up and running I'll prolly post a howto > > if other people are interesting in implementing similar systems. Besides > > having great bandwidth, its the coolest thing to have a 3 foot parabolic > > sitting on your roof. > > > > -- Greg > > > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> > > <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> > > > > -- > > echo "unsubscribe svlug" | mail majordomo@svlug.org > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ to unsubscribe > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From greg@nova.explosive.net Tue Jul 21 18:21:20 1998 -0700 Status: X-Status: X-Keywords: Date: Tue, 21 Jul 1998 18:19:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: Ian Kluft <ikluft@cisco.com> cc: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net>, svlug@svlug.org Subject: Re: [svlug] Looking for an ISP In-Reply-To: <199807212351.QAA29099@tiber.cisco.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980721174420.22789O-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Ian Kluft wrote: > With what licensing do you propose to transmit on 2.4GHz? > > That's an Amateur Radio band. There are 5 Amateur Radio repeaters on the > 2.4GHz band in the Bay Area (out of about seven in North America) because all > the VHF/UHF bands in this area are fully utilized/saturated. And expect more > Hams to keep arriving on the band. Hams are second most likely (behind the > military) to hunt down sources of interference on their frequencies! > > If you were thinking of low-power unlicensed Part15 operation, you probably > can't do it in this area for that far a distance without power levels that > require licensing. Part15 is meant for use with such low power that it's > only usable within the same building. Unless you're an experienced Ham > or microwave radio engineer, you probably can't find or make an antenna > with sufficient gain to break through the noise at Part15 power levels. We are using 24dbi parabolic antennas on both ends, in conjunction with transmitters which fall within unlicensed Part15. A similar setup (set up by the current maintainer of the arlan driver) used a parabolic on one side and an omni on the other and was able to cover 9km (roughly 6 miles) http://home.cyber.ee/~elmer/655/ Using parabolics on both ends should increase that figure substantialy. This is all mostly a "wouldn't it be cool if" project, and I have high hopes that it'll work within the constrains of FCC regulations. We shall see. If not I guess I'll have to stick with my ricochet modem, which by the way is using a cell located by the cisco campus off 237. 20 miles isn't too bad for a stock 900mhz ricochet modem with the standard omni antenna. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From greg@nova.explosive.net Wed Jul 22 10:43:03 1998 -0700 Status: X-Status: X-Keywords: Date: Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:41:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: Bob La Quey <robertl1@home.com> Subject: Re: Info on Dishes/Router In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980721131954.00af35b0@mail.dt1.sdca.home.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980722103508.23249A-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 21 Jul 1998, Bob La Quey wrote: > Hi Greg, > > I have been lurking on the SVLUG list and saw your post looking for an > antenna to tie into. I can't help you there. I am in San Diego and lucky to > have a cable modem. I am however very interested in learning more about the > 2.4 GhZ stuff and the Linux Router Project. > > I turned up an inaccessible link for the Linux Router Porject at > www.psychosis.com ... > > So my question. Can you provide me with some good URLs for: > > 1) Linux Router Project > 2) 2.4 Ghz technology These are the URL's that should get you where you need to be. The documentation for LRP is alittle lacking so if you have some questions lemme know. Once this is done I'll be posting a howto or something to that affect, however I'm waiting to get this system up and running before I get everybody excited and out there spending thousands on the hardware. The Arlan driver: http://home.cyber.ee/~elmer/655/ Linux Router Project: http://www.psychosis.com/linux-router/ -- greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com Thu Jul 30 13:13:12 1998 Return-Path: <mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id NAA01902 for <greg@rage.net>; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.fw-sj.sony.com ([198.93.2.18]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA18683 for <greg@savesmart.com>; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:10:46 -0700 Received: from mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com (mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com [43.134.1.111]) by mail2.fw-sj.sony.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA11929; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com id NAA08819; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xbarnyard.corpnet.sel.sony.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xbarnyard.corpnet.sel.sony.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA06333; Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com Message-ID: <35C0D349.237C228A@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 13:10:49 -0700 From: Michael Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; U; BSD/OS 3.1 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org CC: greg@savesmart.com Subject: [Fwd: Re: Bandwidth wanted] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 803 Jack Unger wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > Please give me a call over the weekend. We have been providing > high-speed wireless Internet access in parts of the Peninsula > since January of 1996. We are currently moving our Los Gatos > wireless access point to a new and higher location in East Los > Gatos. Perhaps we can work some kind of an access deal out > with you. > Thanks, > jack > > Phone (831) 335-2439 > > P.S. (831) is the new Santa Cruz area code (bet you knew that)... > > > In article <35BF7831.446B9B3D@corpnet.sel.sony.com> you wrote: > : Hi all! > > : In our remote mountain home high above Los Gatos, California... > > : there is no ISDN... ADSL is also not available in our CO. GTE doesn't > : know how to spell T1. Cable modem is available, but the uplink is > : abysmal... > > : We have built two Linux based boxes that using the arlan cards > : and code from the linux router project, big antennas, and all. The > : system works great in the limited testing we have done thus far. > : Typical transfers are in the 100KByte/sec range. (the cards have > : three modes - 2Mbit, 1Mbit, and 384k - we don't expect to be able > : to use the highest modes at any range further than 6 miles) > > : Now the question. Our original downlink sites didn't work out. > : (They were directly behind mountains or too far) Is there a kind soul or > : ISP in the area crudely described below that has some Internet bandwidth > : (T1 or ADSL), clear line of sight to the Santa Cruz mountains, and room > : for a a 3 foot antenna on the roof... > > : Los Gatos > : / ---280 > : / \ > : 880 Lawrence Expressway > : | \ > : | ---101 -------- > : > > : We'd be willing to share costs, swap services, etc. We're providing our > : all own hardware. This wireless stuff has a high coolness factor. > > : Hope somebody out there can help! > > : Sincerely, > > : _________ > : Mike > : (from the Taht/Retkowski Home for the Bandwidth Deprived) > > : -- > : hm (408)353-4650 mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org > : wk (408)955-5400 mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com > : pg mtaht.page@taos.com > > -- > > Advertisement - Since 1993 - Designing and Installing Wireless WANs. > Since 1995 - Providing High-Speed Wireless Internet Access. > http://www.ask-wi.com > > Social Comment - A gun, in a moment of anger, turns a "law-abiding" citizen > into a criminal. > -- hm (408)353-4650 mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org wk (408)955-5400 mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com pg mtaht.page@taos.com From greg@nova.explosive.net Thu Jul 30 14:29:09 1998 -0700 Status: X-Status: X-Keywords: Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:27:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: Michael Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Bandwidth wanted] In-Reply-To: <35C0D349.237C228A@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980730142029.6266F-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This one sounds pretty promising. The first wasnt (theres no way we can do the airport), and I'm not sure where monument hill is.. But I'm just writing this to fix the social commentary. Remember mad libs? > > Social Comment - A 1___, in a moment of 2_____, turns a "law-abiding" > citizen into a 3________. 1: Car 2: Drunkenness 3: killer 1: Sheep 2: Pasion 3: sheep-fucker? -- Greg On Thu, 30 Jul 1998, Michael Taht wrote: > Jack Unger wrote: > > > > Hi Mike, > > > > Please give me a call over the weekend. We have been providing > > high-speed wireless Internet access in parts of the Peninsula > > since January of 1996. We are currently moving our Los Gatos > > wireless access point to a new and higher location in East Los > > Gatos. Perhaps we can work some kind of an access deal out > > with you. > > Thanks, > > jack > > > > Phone (831) 335-2439 > > > > P.S. (831) is the new Santa Cruz area code (bet you knew that)... > > > > > > In article <35BF7831.446B9B3D@corpnet.sel.sony.com> you wrote: > > : Hi all! > > > > : In our remote mountain home high above Los Gatos, California... > > > > : there is no ISDN... ADSL is also not available in our CO. GTE doesn't > > : know how to spell T1. Cable modem is available, but the uplink is > > : abysmal... > > > > : We have built two Linux based boxes that using the arlan cards > > : and code from the linux router project, big antennas, and all. The > > : system works great in the limited testing we have done thus far. > > : Typical transfers are in the 100KByte/sec range. (the cards have > > : three modes - 2Mbit, 1Mbit, and 384k - we don't expect to be able > > : to use the highest modes at any range further than 6 miles) > > > > : Now the question. Our original downlink sites didn't work out. > > : (They were directly behind mountains or too far) Is there a kind soul or > > : ISP in the area crudely described below that has some Internet bandwidth > > : (T1 or ADSL), clear line of sight to the Santa Cruz mountains, and room > > : for a a 3 foot antenna on the roof... > > > > : Los Gatos > > : / ---280 > > : / \ > > : 880 Lawrence Expressway > > : | \ > > : | ---101 -------- > > : > > > > : We'd be willing to share costs, swap services, etc. We're providing our > > : all own hardware. This wireless stuff has a high coolness factor. > > > > : Hope somebody out there can help! > > > > : Sincerely, > > > > : _________ > > : Mike > > : (from the Taht/Retkowski Home for the Bandwidth Deprived) > > > > : -- > > : hm (408)353-4650 mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org > > : wk (408)955-5400 mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com > > : pg mtaht.page@taos.com > > > > -- > > > > Advertisement - Since 1993 - Designing and Installing Wireless WANs. > > Since 1995 - Providing High-Speed Wireless Internet Access. > > http://www.ask-wi.com > > > > Social Comment - A gun, in a moment of anger, turns a "law-abiding" citizen > > into a criminal. > > > > -- > hm (408)353-4650 mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org > wk (408)955-5400 mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com > pg mtaht.page@taos.com > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com Thu Aug 20 10:53:39 1998 Return-Path: <mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id KAA08306 for <greg@rage.net>; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.fw-sj.sony.com ([198.93.2.18]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA658 for <greg@savesmart.com>; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:51:00 -0700 Received: from mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com (mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com [43.134.1.111]) by mail2.fw-sj.sony.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15157 for <greg@savesmart.com>; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:50:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com id KAA24388; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xbarnyard.corpnet.sel.sony.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xbarnyard.corpnet.sel.sony.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA02664 for <greg@savesmart.com>; Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:50:09 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com Message-ID: <35DC61D0.2781E494@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 10:50:08 -0700 From: Michael Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; U; BSD/OS 3.1 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: greg@savesmart.com Subject: [Fwd: Got your cable!] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1538 Everett F. Basham wrote: > > Mike - > > I just checked at the shop - we've got a bunch of LMR-400 cables that have > been torn out of installs -- I didn't make up the second short cable with the > parts you left last night -- I've still got your two virgin connectors.. > > so here's the plan. > > Figure out what length you need to get off the antenna mast, through > the roof (You might want to buy a 1-1/4 roof jack from homey depot to > flash around the cable penetration in the roof) as straight through the > attic as possible, and into the "computer room" (just figure on punching > a hole in the sheetrock ceiling in that room - could even be a closet at > that point). Plan on putting the PC up on top of a rack / shelf or > what have you -- really close to the ceiling (Maybe velcro it to the > ceiling... now there's an idea...) > > Note - I think you're better off reliability wise getting the PC in a > climate controlled environment -- we can afford some loss on the signal > to achieve this. > > At 15' of LMR400 (plus the tails) - you're loosing about 12-16% of your > signal (we were loosing about 4% this morning). Worse comes to worse, we > can always go to the 7/8 heliax nitrogen filled cable and get it down to > 1%, but the incremental grief in doing that over using LMR400 (which I > have in abundance) is probably not justified given the exceptionally > positive result we had this morning. It's worth a shot. (Plus - the > holes you have to make to run the LMR400 would be in the same place as > the route you'd want to take with the heliax). Worst case, you use the > LMR400 to pull the heliax in to the same path (use it as a pull rope.) > > Page me with that length (6293385@skytel.com) and I'll make another cable > out of the LMR400 I already have and the two connectors you left me. (I've > got plenty of cables around the house I can use on my end.) -- You can > drop by this evening if you like on your way home and get the longer cable. > > This would give us a setup that we could *carefully* align and have some > permanence. I'd be willing to bet money we can get 0% packet loss at full > bandwidth with about 30 minutes of alignment effort. We almost had it > this morning! (I think I'll buy a tripod mount from radio shack -- it's > the only RS product I even remotely consider worth buying there -- then I > can route from the roof into my master bedroom closet pretty darn easy. Our > first test would have your 486 acting as a router to an HPUX system in my > bedroom). > > Once we've got this running good, *YOU* can write some scripts to do 24 hour > sampling of the connection quality to look for interference. *I* can get a > spectrum analyzer and hook it to the antenna and see what the interference > looks like. Between the two of us (and hopefully the manual that came with > these cards) we can play with the spreading sequence variable to improve > what we've got even further. (Your software skills and my hardware skills > are truly complimentary -- we make a killer team in doing this stuff. -- a > definite recipe for success) > > I suspect we could ftp 1GB files back and forth all day after we play with > it a bit and never know it wasn't really copper up there. Once we have the > link running good, it would be a good idea to do just that (ftp 1GB files > all the time, 24 hours a day) -- the reason is simple... > > IN the radio world (the licensed radio world -- what we were using today on > the handhelds) - you *NEED* to "piss on your territory" to keep other people > from burning a license with the FCC and "sharing" it with you (which the FCC > will gladly do). The more you "piss on your territory" the less likely you > are to get some jackass showing up and causing interference to you. > > That holds doubly true for microwave. And triply true for license free > microwave. > > Keeping a 1GB file going back and forth would keep the transmitters running > on both ends, effectively pissing all over the spectrum. 2.4 GHz *will* > become crowded as more and more people like us start doing this stuff. 5.8 > (or 5.6??) will become the refuge from it all. This lets us "carve out a > spot" that other people won't want to occupy. > > Once we're confident in the link robustness - we just need to sit down and > iron out the ISP / T1 link details. I spoke with Chris - his only "real" > costs are a wire management fee from the abovenet folks for each T1 (copper) > that comes into him (they charge for the connection from the demarc to the > router through their building - his router is colocated at their facility) > His b/w charges are $500/mo per 1.0 Mb/s of *true* bandwidth (right now, he's > paying for 5Mb/s and getting 10Mb/s since it's on an ethernet connection to > their router. He can upgrade to 100Mb/s overnight if he needs to. They > won't charge him for more than 5Mb/s if his 95th percentile stays below 5, > which it has been. (but the 10 is always available for those "crunch" > situations) > > BTW - here's a ping from inside HP to sandollar.net -- > > 64 bytes from 207.126.121.64: icmp_seq=1. time=7. ms > 64 bytes from 207.126.121.64: icmp_seq=2. time=5. ms > 64 bytes from 207.126.121.64: icmp_seq=3. time=5. ms > 64 bytes from 207.126.121.64: icmp_seq=4. time=6. ms > > As you can see - he's got good connectivity - here's a traceroute - > > 1 packets sent via: > 15.16.208.101 - padc-gw1.corp.hp.com > 15.88.56.11 - palhgw11.cns.hp.com > 157.130.192.118 - hp-pao-gw.customer.ALTER.NET > 157.130.192.97 - Fddi12-0.GW1.PAO1.ALTER.NET > 207.126.96.122 - paix-main-oc3.pao.above.net > 207.126.98.4 - main-98.sjc.above.net > 207.126.121.64 - neptune.sanddollar.net > 209.133.31.70 - main-core1.sjc.above.net > 207.126.96.57 - core1-mae-west-oc3.sjc.above.net > > Chris is interested in getting into the wireless aspect of it -- I've > known him for quite some time and I think we have a strong recipe for > success here. With the low cost method of putting in these links, we > could bring up lots of customers at very cheap rates for incredible b/w > and still make money! > > > _______________ > Everett Fred Basham | / | / | > Hardware Development Engineer [|_______|_______|] > Hewlett-Packard Cupertino Technology Lab /____=======____\ > 11000 Wolfe Road, Mailstop 42 LAB [._\O|||||||O/_.] > Cupertino, CA 95014 |w|$\_u___u_/$|w| > (408) 447-7154 When you reach the end of the |w|/ \|w| > road--Hummer Turbo Cabriolet! [w] [w] From greg@nova.explosive.net Thu Aug 20 15:37:12 1998 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 15:35:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com cc: mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org Subject: alternate wireless configuration Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980820152832.8997B-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 46 Here's an idea for an alternate configuration which may be desireable if our associate wishes to have multiple wireless nodes (i.e. plans to sell service). We should try seting up an omnidirectional antenna on his roof and see if we get signal. That would allow us to use his end as a 'hub' and each 'spoke' would have a directional antenna pointed to the center. Thus it would only take one more router to get to bandwidth (instead of two if both ends are directional). Although there is a good chance an omni wont work, they are very cheap and so it would be trivial to see if it works before spending alot more on hardware. anyway, just my thoughts. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From greg@nova.explosive.net Mon Aug 24 17:21:03 1998 -0700 Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:19:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: dan@safari.net Subject: news and details Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980824171132.12932B-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 Heya Dan, Some good news on our side, we've got our wireless link up and running. Its currently running at 2-megabit speed, with an 11 milisecond round-trip ping time, at a range of over 12 miles! We are doing further testing on it, but the result we have right now is a good indication that it can work. Add into that the fact that we are probably in one of the 'noisiest' (radio-wise) places in america and I'd say that its good indication that this would work well in other metropolitan areas. the setup costs are less then $1500 per node. Anyway, we'll let you know more as we do more tests. Theres a small detail I'd like to get cleared up before safari officialy becomes property of verio. I believe payment is still outstanding for my work on buildingtrades, for a sum of $500. Can you please have accounting look into it and mail me a check? My address here is: 21400 Madrone Drive Los Gatos, CA 95033 Thanks, best of luck --Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com Tue Sep 8 11:12:05 1998 Return-Path: <mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id LAA18547 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.fw-sj.sony.com ([198.93.2.18]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA13546 for <greg@savesmart.com>; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:09:46 -0700 Received: from mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com (mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com [43.134.1.111]) by mail2.fw-sj.sony.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09029 for <greg@savesmart.com>; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com id LAA24819; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:10:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xbarnyard.corpnet.sel.sony.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xbarnyard.corpnet.sel.sony.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA01957 for <greg@savesmart.com>; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:10:14 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com Message-ID: <35F57306.794BDF32@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:10:14 -0700 From: Michael Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; U; BSD/OS 3.1 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: greg@savesmart.com Subject: Getting you back in the loop Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 2234 Last week everett and I priced out available ADSL options and performance tested the wireless cards. We also hooked up with an ISP president (bobm@accesscom.com) who was also into ham radio, who also wanted his own antenna!! This has possibilities that we want to explore this week. The max ADSL available in Everetts area was 384Kb from brainstorm Pac bell said that 1.5/384 might be available and started a test last week. Aside from antenna aiming and routing problems, we finally got the boxes to route reliably, though I'm doing it all by hand and there are no doubt more problems to deal with. The wireless cards would reset frequently under heavy load at the 2MBit/sec setting, we downgraded to 1Mbit. While the cards still reset fairly often, it was rarely noticible. Max throughput was 40KB/sec. Running a 2.2 kernel should be better than that by 20% or so. Weather remains a problem. It would be nice to either try and build a 20MB version of redhat 5.1 or put up a new version of the linux-router.org stuff on this drive with sshd and gated support. Serial console would be nice, too... Will you have any time this week? I am contemplating getting another 3-4k from your mom as we may have to buy another set of antennas, etc to get from everett's to bob's house. Sigh. If I had the cash I'd probably go and get some 140MB flash drives so we can just stick with plain redhat. _________ mike </pre> <pre> <a name=POE>From mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com</a> Tue Sep 8 11:19:30 1998 Return-Path: <mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id LAA18630 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.fw-bc.sony.com ([198.83.177.13]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA13739 for <greg@savesmart.com>; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:17:11 -0700 Received: from mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com (mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com [43.134.1.111]) by mail2.fw-bc.sony.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24971; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com id LAA25304; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xbarnyard.corpnet.sel.sony.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xbarnyard.corpnet.sel.sony.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA01962; Tue, 8 Sep 1998 11:12:57 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com Message-ID: <35F573A8.15FB7483@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:12:56 -0700 From: Michael Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; U; BSD/OS 3.1 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Everett F. Basham" <efbasham@cup.hp.com> CC: greg@savesmart.com Subject: Weeks work? References: <199809041932.MAA28777@hpcuhe.cup.hp.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2236 Everett: Our problem friday was that the high winds had cocked my antenna a few degrees. So we were down that way. Routing was fine. :(. In getting the machine off the roof before the rain I ended up trashing the tail (as I saved the whole thing from sliding off the roof), so we probably need to replace the tail.... Over the weekend I cleaned up the house, made room downstairs to setup two more prototypes, and got my DEC alpha up to the point where it could take over firewall/NAT/gateway duties from screamingslave. I like running a non-intel architecture for a firewall, and when last I used this machine it did NAT (ip_masqing in linux parlance) quite well. I built up from spare parts most of two machines to do testing of the Flash disk and boot ROMs for a new, improved version of the router boxes. I'm picking up a case/PS/floppy on my way home today. Was it, you, Evertt? that gave me a local dealer (central?) that would be better than frys? These two machines are a little overkill for this project, but they are all I have available. The router box that was on the roof now sits on the floor awaiting a clue as to what to do with it. Mentally I'm still on a course to build a heat-proof box rather than a water-proof one as I'm not heavily into running power, video, and network cables into the outside. I like the idea of building a SBC that will sit outside on a short run of cable, but don't have the funds to go that route in the short term. You say you can build a weatherproof box for how much time, $$ and effort, everett? I'd like to meet with bob at lunch or after work this week if at all possible. I am free today, tomorrow and friday. _______ mike Everett F. Basham wrote: > > Mike - > > Called access internet - bob's out until tuesday - must have planned a long > vacation weekend. > > EFB From greg@nova.explosive.net Tue Sep 8 19:25:19 1998 -0700 Date: Tue, 8 Sep 1998 19:24:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Michael Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Subject: Re: Getting you back in the loop In-Reply-To: <35F57306.794BDF32@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980908191425.750A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6 On Tue, 8 Sep 1998, Michael Taht wrote: > Date: Tue, 08 Sep 1998 11:10:14 -0700 > From: Michael Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> > To: greg@savesmart.com > Subject: Getting you back in the loop > > Last week everett and I priced out available ADSL options and > performance tested the wireless cards. We also hooked up with an > ISP president (bobm@accesscom.com) who was also into ham radio, > who also wanted his own antenna!! This has possibilities that > we want to explore this week. > > The max ADSL available in Everetts area was 384Kb from brainstorm > Pac bell said that 1.5/384 might be available and started a test > last week. sigh. well I fold, 384 is enough for me to get work done, and I'm sick of trying for more. > > Aside from antenna aiming and routing problems, we finally > got the boxes to route reliably, though I'm doing it all by > hand and there are no doubt more problems to deal with. > > The wireless cards would reset frequently under heavy load at the > 2MBit/sec setting, we downgraded to 1Mbit. While the cards still > reset fairly often, it was rarely noticible. Max throughput was > 40KB/sec. Running a 2.2 kernel should be better than that by 20% > or so. hrm. the drivers reset automatically? (or is this a hacked together script?) how long does it take for them to reset? how noticeable to a user is the reset? > Weather remains a problem. Fog in the mornings? how does rain affect it? > It would be nice to either try and build a 20MB version of redhat 5.1 > or put up a new version of the linux-router.org stuff on this > drive with sshd and gated support. Serial console would be nice, > too... Will you have any time this week? yeah, those 3 features would be nice. can probly be done with one of the funky disk formats (they suggest using nonstandard formats to get extra space on the floppy) > I am contemplating getting another 3-4k from your mom as we may > have to buy another set of antennas, etc to get from everett's > to bob's house. Sigh. Well, does bob want to give us free connectivity? if not I dont see the point, if we have to pay bob or mindstorm it makes no difference to me, and paying mindstorm saves us $3K in equipment costs and headaches. If bob would like to give us free connectivity this might be a better deal. If bob would like to licence the technology (to provide for his customers) in exchange for bandwidth this would be an even better deal. Otherwise, why bother? > > If I had the cash I'd probably go and get some 140MB flash drives > so we can just stick with plain redhat. I think having a full linux distribution on these machines would be overkill. I'm prolly gonna get another 486 sometime this week and make it another LRP router. This'll let me reclam my ldap box and give us an LRP box here that we can modify at will. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From greg@nova.explosive.net Wed Sep 9 12:17:00 1998 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:15:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: Mike Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> cc: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Subject: Re: Getting you back in the loop In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.02A.9809091046570.20737-100000@soda-pop.corpnet.sel.sony.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980909121213.9957C-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 screamingslave would still have alot of duties (mail, X10, XDM, DNS, etc.. etc.. etc..). Theres an old saying.. if its not broken dont fix it. I wouldnt mind using the alpha as a firewall, I just dont think we should do it till we convert our inet connection to the wireless link. -- Greg On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Mike Taht wrote: > > Basically also switching over to the alpha as the firewall box for now, > that would free up screamingslave entirely for wheverver you wanted it > for. > > > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com Wed Sep 9 13:07:04 1998 Return-Path: <mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id NAA25380 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:07:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.fw-bc.sony.com ([198.83.177.13]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA11219 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:04:45 -0700 Received: from mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com (mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com [43.134.1.111]) by mail2.fw-bc.sony.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA22652 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:05:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com id MAA28717; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xbarnyard.corpnet.sel.sony.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xbarnyard.corpnet.sel.sony.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA04454 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Wed, 9 Sep 1998 12:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com Message-ID: <35F6DD77.41C67EA6@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 12:56:39 -0700 From: Michael Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (X11; U; BSD/OS 3.1 i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Retkowski <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com> Subject: Re: Getting you back in the loop References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980909121213.9957C-100000@homeless> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 9 Oh I agree with you fully. I would prefer to continue bringing new boxes online. I'm just a little leery of another 486 - the one at everett's does not have a working ide controller, for example. Greg Retkowski wrote: > > screamingslave would still have alot of duties (mail, X10, XDM, DNS, etc.. > etc.. etc..). Theres an old saying.. if its not broken dont fix it. I > wouldnt mind using the alpha as a firewall, I just dont think we should do > it till we convert our inet connection to the wireless link. > > -- Greg > > On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Mike Taht wrote: > > > > > Basically also switching over to the alpha as the firewall box for now, > > that would free up screamingslave entirely for wheverver you wanted it > > for. > > > > > > > > > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> > <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From greg@nova.explosive.net Wed Sep 9 15:14:41 1998 -0700 Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 15:12:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: Michael Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> cc: "Everett F. Basham" <efbasham@cup.hp.com>, greg@rage.net Subject: Re: Pac bell traceroutes and pings In-Reply-To: <35F6F94F.59E2B600@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980909150512.9957H-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 13 On Wed, 9 Sep 1998, Michael Taht wrote: > I don't like them hopping onto ibm's net. I keep visualizing > poor little tcp/ip packets trapped on a 4Mbit/sec token ring.... > :( Their net seems fairly well connected... better than above (where rage.net is located) > To summarize - > > 449 for hardware (Alcatel something or other - 15 mac addresses) > ISP Install waived on a 12 month contract > 237/month for 384k non-metered > 32 IPs (29 available) > The bill comes on everett's regular bill. This is a sticking > point. I was most comfortable paying the bill directly myself > (as the ultimate end user). Everett and I had agreed on a 2/3's > split of the total bill, with us covering install. If this > still works for everyone... with perhaps some > paperwork between us... I'm ready to go for it! Fine, lets do it. I even have money in the bank to get this going (if your numbers are accurate). It would be nice to get it ordered _today_. works for me. also depends on how well our adsl router 'route's. Figure we can split up the 32 addresses (/27) as such. /28 Mike/Greg's house (14 addresses) /29 Everett's house (6 addresses) /30 P-to-P wireless link (2 addresses) /30 (future use?) (2 addresses) -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From greg@nova.explosive.net Mon Sep 28 14:23:16 1998 -0700 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 1998 14:21:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org, michael_taht@sony.com Subject: progress on 'large' floppies Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980928140343.5659J-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 114 Just an update, I've made some progress on large floppy support. One of the problems that could have held up stuff on the weekend I solved today. it appears there was some problem copying things from a 'loop' mounted image file. the new version (2.9.3) is also required for working large disk support. anyway, I've got enough space now that I can install gated and snmp! I'm going to start downloading the linux-2.0.36pre2 so we can cross-compile the arlan driver to work with the LRP kernel. (it'll be in /home/greg/linux if you want to play with it). I may (if I get time) start downloading the 2.9.3 LRP also, although I have a working version on a floppy. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From greg@nova.explosive.net Tue Sep 29 11:07:59 1998 -0700 Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 11:05:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: Michael Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> cc: efbasham@cup.hp.com, mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org Subject: Re: today? In-Reply-To: <360FFC96.FFD6BDDD@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980929102932.8250A-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 120 Looked at my calendar today and realized our ASDL install date is only a week away! This makes me think about all the stuff we still have to get done before that happens.. These are the things I can think of off the top of my head. Figure out ASDL box, possibly by reading manual (do we have the box yet?) Figure out proxy-arp with the routers. Upgrade the routers to the latest LRP Rev Configure routing w/ gated on routers (not sure how this'll cooperate with proxy arping). Install routers, test link between houses. Is there a way we can find out what block of addresses we'll have assigned before the install? It would be great to set up everything beforehand and test it so that when the install happens we'll be ready to go. Any idea if pacbell will fix reverse resolution for our addresses if we give them the appropriate information? I'd love to be able to talk to our installer regarding some of these matters. Considering all the things on this list involving the routers, perhaps we should wait on installing them untill the weekend. Besides, I think we run into an issue of getting home after dark, which is going to make the install difficult durring the week. Thoughts on nameservice: I think it'll be important that we have nameservers on both sides of the link. One of the servers on Michelle's network can probably do secondary nameservice. It would be nice to do some sort of redundant handling of webservers, mail, etc.. for the days when weather interferes with the wireless link. -- Greg PS. Mike, have you seen my RH5.1 CD? please check around for it. Is it possibly at work? On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Michael Taht wrote: > Greg indicates he's free today->wed eves. I'm not getting out of here > until 7ish at the earliest. > > Is that too late? Shall we plan on tuesday instead? I can do tuesday or > wed or tonight if > we're into doin this in the dark.... > > > > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From efbasham@cup.hp.com Tue Sep 29 12:24:53 1998 Return-Path: <efbasham@cup.hp.com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id MAA04253 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlrel2.hp.com ([156.153.255.202]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA2868 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:22:17 -0700 Received: from hphmmwv.cup.hp.com (efbasham@hphmmwv.cup.hp.com [15.0.72.53]) by atlrel2.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id PAA08100 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 15:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from efbasham@localhost) by hphmmwv.cup.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3 TIS Messaging 5.0) id MAA04791 for Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:22:50 -0700 (PDT) From: "Everett F. Basham" <efbasham@cup.hp.com> Message-Id: <199809291922.MAA04791@hphmmwv.cup.hp.com> Subject: Re: today? To: Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com (Greg Retkowski) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 12:22:50 PDT In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980929102932.8250A-100000@homeless>; from "Greg Retkowski" at Sep 29, 98 11:05 am X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1082 > > Looked at my calendar today and realized our ASDL install date is only a > week away! This makes me think about all the stuff we still have to get > done before that happens.. These are the things I can think of off the top > of my head. Step 0 - get pac bell to return my f'ing fone calls about when they plan to install the line - called yesterday and today - no response yet. (tweedel dee is in a meeting, and tweedel dumb is away from his desk or on the phone) > Figure out ASDL box, possibly by reading manual (do we have the box yet?) > Figure out proxy-arp with the routers. > Upgrade the routers to the latest LRP Rev > Configure routing w/ gated on routers (not sure how this'll cooperate > with proxy arping). > Install routers, test link between houses. > > Is there a way we can find out what block of addresses we'll have assigned > before the install? It would be great to set up everything beforehand and > test it so that when the install happens we'll be ready to go. Any idea if > pacbell will fix reverse resolution for our addresses if we give them the > appropriate information? I'd love to be able to talk to our installer > regarding some of these matters. > Called and left VM about this specific topic - I need to configure the web server / router I'm using as well - no response yet. > Considering all the things on this list involving the routers, perhaps we > should wait on installing them untill the weekend. Besides, I think we run > into an issue of getting home after dark, which is going to make the > install difficult durring the week. > I tend to agree here - it's getting dark earlier now (no more 9PM sunsets) which makes the "on the roof" job a whole lot of fun - will you and Mike be available this weekend so we can get a guy on each end? > Thoughts on nameservice: > I think it'll be important that we have nameservers on both sides of the > link. One of the servers on Michelle's network can probably do secondary > nameservice. It would be nice to do some sort of redundant handling of > webservers, mail, etc.. for the days when weather interferes with the > wireless link. > I'll have DNS running on my webserver/router/firewall/POP3/whatever box. You're welcome to stuff listings there (and perhaps also run it on the radio PC) - I'd bet with judicial setting of the b/w on the uWave pipe, you can allmost eliminate rain problems. > -- Greg > > PS. Mike, have you seen my RH5.1 CD? please check around for it. Is it > possibly at work? > > On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Michael Taht wrote: > > > Greg indicates he's free today->wed eves. I'm not getting out of here > > until 7ish at the earliest. > > > > Is that too late? Shall we plan on tuesday instead? I can do tuesday or > > wed or tonight if > > we're into doin this in the dark.... > > > > > > > > > > > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> > <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> > From mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com Tue Sep 29 16:39:31 1998 Return-Path: <mtaht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id QAA05242 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.fw-sj.sony.com ([198.93.2.18]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA6412 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:36:53 -0700 Received: from mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com (mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com [43.134.1.111]) by mail2.fw-sj.sony.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA03904; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:36:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com id QAA06918; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from corpnet.sel.sony.com (mtaht@dhcp13.corpnet.sel.sony.com [43.134.25.113]) by soda-pop.corpnet.sel.sony.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA21834; Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:36:00 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com Message-ID: <36116E2C.99B42B1B@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Date: Tue, 29 Sep 1998 16:33:01 -0700 From: Michael Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> Organization: Linux Underground X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5b2 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.34 i486) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Retkowski <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>, gretowksi.page@taos.com Subject: Re: today? References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980929102932.8250A-100000@homeless> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1108 Do you want to meet at everets'? Greg Retkowski wrote: > Looked at my calendar today and realized our ASDL install date is only a > week away! This makes me think about all the stuff we still have to get > done before that happens.. These are the things I can think of off the top > of my head. > Figure out ASDL box, possibly by reading manual (do we have the box yet?) > Figure out proxy-arp with the routers. > Upgrade the routers to the latest LRP Rev > Configure routing w/ gated on routers (not sure how this'll cooperate > with proxy arping). > Install routers, test link between houses. > > Is there a way we can find out what block of addresses we'll have assigned > before the install? It would be great to set up everything beforehand and > test it so that when the install happens we'll be ready to go. Any idea if > pacbell will fix reverse resolution for our addresses if we give them the > appropriate information? I'd love to be able to talk to our installer > regarding some of these matters. > > Considering all the things on this list involving the routers, perhaps we > should wait on installing them untill the weekend. Besides, I think we run > into an issue of getting home after dark, which is going to make the > install difficult durring the week. > > Thoughts on nameservice: > I think it'll be important that we have nameservers on both sides of the > link. One of the servers on Michelle's network can probably do secondary > nameservice. It would be nice to do some sort of redundant handling of > webservers, mail, etc.. for the days when weather interferes with the > wireless link. > > -- Greg > > PS. Mike, have you seen my RH5.1 CD? please check around for it. Is it > possibly at work? > > On Mon, 28 Sep 1998, Michael Taht wrote: > > > Greg indicates he's free today->wed eves. I'm not getting out of here > > until 7ish at the earliest. > > > > Is that too late? Shall we plan on tuesday instead? I can do tuesday or > > wed or tonight if > > we're into doin this in the dark.... > > > > > > > > > > > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> > <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From efbasham@cup.hp.com Thu Oct 15 14:17:39 1998 Return-Path: <efbasham@cup.hp.com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id OAA09557 for <greg@rage.net>; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlrel2.hp.com ([156.153.255.202]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA10780 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:14:51 -0700 Received: from hphmmwv.cup.hp.com (efbasham@hphmmwv.cup.hp.com [15.0.72.53]) by atlrel2.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id RAA21173 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 17:15:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from efbasham@localhost) by hphmmwv.cup.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3 TIS Messaging 5.0) id OAA03050 for Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com; Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:15:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Everett F. Basham" <efbasham@cup.hp.com> Message-Id: <199810152115.OAA03050@hphmmwv.cup.hp.com> Subject: Re: router/arp To: Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com (Greg Retkowski) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 14:15:23 PDT In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981015134704.4802H-100000@homeless>; from "Greg Retkowski" at Oct 15, 98 1:59 pm X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 125 Greg - come to think of it - they mentioned that the DSL modem can only handle a maximum of 15 "devices" (not IPs) without using a router. That's probably the size of its arp table. Again - the salescritters I'm dealing with can barely send email... "No... The "AT" is a single character, usually located above the two key. The number two. No - not the nubmer sign. Shift - number 2. #@. ok .now delete the number sign..." > > On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Everett F. Basham wrote: > > Yea - this seemed fishy to me as well - they also gave me the > > Primary DSL IP (something foreign to me) 209.232.137.222 /nm ff.ff.ff.252 > > - so I think it's like this: > > > > DSL ANT DSL DSLAM > > .0-31 <-> 209.232.137.221 <-> 209.232.137.222 (i.e. the 221/222 are the > > serial link IPs) > > > > ^ (yea - a miracle happens here) > > > > We'll see when the installers show up. i asked them if the T/A needed an > > IP - they said no - so perhaps it's bridging rather than routing. > > I think they expect us to put in a router where the two networks meet. > This complicates and simplifies things at the same time (we can do true > routing, rather than proxy-arp'ing the second half of the addresses, but > we'll need to set up a router). I'll pick up another ethernet card for the > wireless router, it'll be trivial to get it routing the ADSL in addition > to the wireless. Perhaps they configure the ANT as a router.. If we do > have to supply the router, the gateway for your internal machines will be > the address of the wireless router, we may want to make it the top > (216.100.34.1) or the bottom (216.100.34.14) address of your subnet. > > -- Greg > > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> > <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> > > From greg@rage.net Tue Oct 20 08:08:14 1998 Return-Path: <greg@rage.net> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id IAA19213 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ragenet.dyn.ml.org ([216.100.34.18]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA27835 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:05:24 -0700 Received: from localhost (greg@localhost) by ragenet.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11392; Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:08:30 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: screamingslave.rage.net: greg owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 08:08:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Reply-To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org cc: Greg Retkowski <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com> Subject: Re: old mailspool file In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981019191343.10297C-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981019231835.10458A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 264 On Mon, 19 Oct 1998 mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org wrote: > Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 19:18:09 -0700 (PDT) > From: mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org > To: Greg Retkowski <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com> > Subject: Re: old mailspool file > > > I think I can pay the picketwyre bill from here, but man I gotta figure > out what I'm spending and what I have before I spend anything before I get > another paycheck... are you transfering rage.net? Taht.org can live up > there fer sure that's paid for... I'm going to wait for a week for things on our network to stabilize before transfering rage.net here. There are still some kinks being worked out. I've already found my first performance gripes.. if two machines are quaking it lags out when one or the other has alot going on. could be because quake uses alot of small packets, and when two clients are going the wireless link may not handle it well.. Also, if somebody is downloading something it eats _all_ available bandwidth so everything else lags out. Guess the nice thing about T1 is that the network inbetween acts as a buffer to prevent your T being saturated by a single user. Quality Of Serice abilities would be nice on this line. I've brought up godzilla and ifconfig'ed it to 216.100.34.20 (and put it on the 10 megabit network). > Send me the electric bill amount, please. Its $87.99.. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From greg@nova.explosive.net Mon Jul 20 23:12:02 1998 -0700 Status: X-Status: X-Keywords: Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 23:11:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: svlug@svlug.org Subject: Looking for an ISP Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981020224217.4232A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi all, This is kinda an unusual request, but here it is anyway... I'm looking for an ISP or IWB (Individual With Bandwidth) located along lawrence expressway. I live up in the santa cruz mountains, and have a great view down into the valley along lawrence. Anyway, this far back into the woods, they dont have frame-relay. Thus I've had to improvise. I've put together a pair of 2.4Ghz 2-megabit wireless routers (using Linux Router Project, of course!) and I need someone around lawrence who's interested in hosting the other end. You could have the coolest geekware on the block. For individuals, we would be willing to defer your bandwidth costs. For ISP's we could pay you a reasonable bandwidth/colocation fee, alternatively we could provide you with all the assistance to provide this as a product to your customers (bypassing the dreaded telco). Regardless, once we got the stuff up and running I'll prolly post a howto if other people are interesting in implementing similar systems. Besides having great bandwidth, its the coolest thing to have a 3 foot parabolic sitting on your roof. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From greg@nova.explosive.net Tue Jul 21 00:08:36 1998 -0700 Status: X-Status: X-Keywords: Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:07:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Alvin Oga <alvin@planet.fef.com> Subject: Re: [svlug] Looking for an ISP In-Reply-To: <m0yyVzg-00042wC@planet> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981021000132.4232B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 20 Jul 1998, Alvin Oga wrote: > Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 23:33:48 -0700 (PDT) > From: Alvin Oga <alvin@planet.fef.com> > To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> > Cc: Alvin Oga <alvin@planet.fef.com> > Subject: Re: [svlug] Looking for an ISP > > > hi again... > > about getting line-of-site microwave connection between there and here ? > > alvin > 408-245-8400 Roomate is on the phone, so I'm not able to call you back. lawrence and 101 may be a bit of a stretch on the range, but I'm willing to give it a try. We can see if there's signal that far out. Then, if it passes traffic we can work out something. How would you feel about giving it a go tommorow (tuesday) around lunchtime or after work? Lemme know. If you need to reach me voice give me a page at 415-253-5370. Thanks. -- Greg > > > Hi all, > > This is kinda an unusual request, but here it is anyway... I'm looking > > for an ISP or IWB (Individual With Bandwidth) located along lawrence > > expressway. I live up in the santa cruz mountains, and have a great view > > down into the valley along lawrence. Anyway, this far back into the woods, > > they dont have frame-relay. Thus I've had to improvise. I've put together > > a pair of 2.4Ghz 2-megabit wireless routers (using Linux Router Project, > > of course!) and I need someone around lawrence who's interested in hosting > > the other end. You could have the coolest geekware on the block. > > For individuals, we would be willing to defer your bandwidth costs. For > > ISP's we could pay you a reasonable bandwidth/colocation fee, > > alternatively we could provide you with all the assistance to provide this > > as a product to your customers (bypassing the dreaded telco). > > > > Regardless, once we got the stuff up and running I'll prolly post a howto > > if other people are interesting in implementing similar systems. Besides > > having great bandwidth, its the coolest thing to have a 3 foot parabolic > > sitting on your roof. > > > > -- Greg > > > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> > > <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> > > > > > > -- > > echo "unsubscribe svlug" | mail majordomo@svlug.org > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ to unsubscribe > > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From efbasham@cup.hp.com Tue Oct 27 11:01:23 1998 Return-Path: <efbasham@cup.hp.com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id LAA07080 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlrel1.hp.com ([156.153.255.210]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA12158 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:58:29 -0800 Received: from hphmmwv.cup.hp.com (efbasham@hphmmwv.cup.hp.com [15.0.72.53]) by atlrel1.hp.com (8.8.6/8.8.5tis) with ESMTP id NAA11373; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 13:58:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from efbasham@localhost) by hphmmwv.cup.hp.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.3 TIS Messaging 5.0) id KAA24390; Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:59:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Everett F. Basham" <efbasham@cup.hp.com> Message-Id: <199810271859.KAA24390@hphmmwv.cup.hp.com> Subject: Re: Router V2 Re: Already been hacked.... To: Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com (Greg Retkowski) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 10:59:03 PST Cc: hummer@www.hmmwv.net, efbasham@cup.hp.com, mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981027102115.8315E-100000@homeless>; from "Greg Retkowski" at Oct 27, 98 10:31 am X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 716 > > Hi Everet, Mike, > I've completed V2 of the wireless router. It features a pentium > processor, 2 PCI network cards and 16M ram. This should be plenty of > horsepower to irradicate the packet-forwarding performance problems we had > with the 486/ISA system. I think the only way to make further significant > gains would be to use a cisco with its custom routing silicon and OS. It > can act as a firewall (the one at the house currenty does this) so it'll > aleviate some of your security issues. It should also have enough > horsepower to run snmpd and gated. And it supports the subnetted networks > we're using. So unless anyone has objections I think it would make a good > ADSL gateway. Its ready to install tonight, and I'd like to do it on my > way home around 7 or 8. Is the the cabling run into the attic yet? I want > to make sure this thing is under cover. Anyway if tonight is good for you > let me know and I'll be over. Greg - tonight and tomorrow are not looking good - I'm going to take advantage of this downtime to re-organize the cable nightmare and put things in the closet where I intended to put them. (I did find the two screws BTW). Let's plan for Friday after work. That will give me time to clean things up and not have to take the whole configuration apart a second time. EFB > > -- Greg > > On Mon, 26 Oct 1998 hummer@www.hmmwv.net wrote: > > > well - it didn't take long - I was reviewing the logs tonight and found > > the kiddies are already at it. I'm not registered on *any* search engine, > > *any* mailing list, etc. Yet they've found me... > > > > Oct 24 12:54:43 www ftpd[9942]: connection from dialup193.awwwsome.com at Sat Oc > > t 24 12:54:43 1998 > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> > <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> > > From mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org Wed Oct 28 05:13:17 1998 Return-Path: <mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id FAA11079 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:13:16 -0800 (PST) From: mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org Received: from ragenet.dyn.ml.org ([204.179.130.117]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA3755 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:10:22 -0800 Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by ragenet.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id FAA14573; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:13:15 -0800 Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 05:13:09 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@screamingslave.rage.net To: Greg Retkowski <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com> cc: hummer@www.hmmwv.net Subject: Re: Router V2 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981027132409.8315M-100000@homeless> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981028041745.14517A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 750 I'm trying to make heads or tails of what's going on here from my remote location. I think we are in the classic 'You can have security, reliability, speed, accountability or ease of use - pick 2' situation. I'm going to make a constructive, semi-uninformed suggestion, and then I'm going to pontificate, and then I'm going to go diving and not worry about the electronic world at all. I don't expect to be online again until I return. Is it not possible, with the addition of a hub, to have both the HP box and the wireless router on the same network as the ADSL box? There is still a security and an accounting issue here, which I will try to address in a few paragraphs. .... Security is a high priority on greg/I's list. I have been hacked 5 times, costing me probably over a month of lost sleep, and the companies I've worked for several hundred thousand dollars in the end. Greg nor I want to be accountable for or subject to the security of an OS that we don't have source code to - HP/UX. And a quick telnet to your sendmail daemon, for example, shows that it is running 8.7.1 - probably vulnerable to a few exploits. I'd be much happier if the linux box served as the router and the hummwv box sat behind it - I am confident that our baby is secure. As I think I've said before, I'll be glad to HELP make the hp/ux box more secure, but I simply don't have the time to keep up with anything but Linux and BSD issues on an ongoing basis.. (If the recently announced move by HP to add linux to their portfolio of OSs is followed up by a hiring binge of people like me, or me, :), obviously this will change. ) I AM NOT SAYING THAT HP/UX is insecure (rootshell.com only posts 3 exploits), only that I don't have proof (source code, personal experience) that it is secure. Reliability is a toss up. I feel the HP boxesn I've worked with are very reliable. I have many linux boxen that are very reliable. The l-boxes we have now have not proven themselves in the field, yet. I'm confident the software is pretty darn good. I give the nod to linux because it supports real subnetting, advanced routing, supports ipv6, and has open source, and all these features have been working for over a year. This is not strictly a reliability argument but a features/reliability argument. Speed. A 486-50 is faster than the processor in Cisco's 2500 series. I have personally measured a 486-100 as capable of saturating a 80% of a 10Mbit line at 6% of CPU. Latency was a small issue (1ms) only fixible with better ethernet hardware (PCI), not CPU. Accountability. Here the HP/UX box gets a nod. I understand that everet wants to monitor the bandwidth usage. This is easiest to do on hardware he understands and controls. I feel greg and I have a large show-me component of the tools we have (and a 1.4 MB floppy distribution doesn't have the tools onboard to show this ) - we nbeed to get mrtg doing bandwidth graphs at our location and I think that willdo the accounting quite handsomely. I'll be glad to help get that working when I get back. The SNMP support greg has added should do the trick. I am going back on vacation now. ________ mike "What can Microsoft do? They certainly can't program around us. And the only other thing they can do is marketing, and sure -- let them try. But, we'll see." Linux Torvalds, his Chesire Cat grin still in place, - from zdnet On Tue, 27 Oct 1998, Greg Retkowski wrote: > > On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 hummer@www.hmmwv.net wrote: > > Greg - > > > > I don't see a problem here. Configure the system to normally use the .2 > > address and route to .17-.31 as before. Have a configuration change > > script that can be invoked to make it the DSL router in the event .1 > > goes down (i.e. - I can switch the cable from the DSL modem to the .2 > > systems' second lan card and invoke the script to have it take over > > routing should I need to service .1 or have a problem with that machine. > > Other machines on the .1-.14 subnet would need to change default gws, > > but it wouldn't affect your systems, since they spec .2 as their default > > anyways) This way we have a backup system to switch over to in case of > > problems. Have a second script that can be invoked to change things > > back once .1 is back on line. > > > > I'm going to keep the DSL line on the .1 network card where I can track > > DSL performance with HP Openview. Running through a second machine will > > cause me to loose this data. > > > > Somewhere down on my priorites is getting ssh running both at work and > > home. On the system at work, I'm not su, so it'll have to be a private > > copy of ssh and the associated config files. > > > > EFB > > HPOV tracks this data via SNMP, which is installed on the new router, you > would not loose this data. I have issues with relying on your HPUX machine > as a router for several reasons. The first is that a machine which is in > use as a server and modified regularly is not a good choice for a router > as things like new software crashing the machine or sendmail loosing > its mind and eating all available cpu or memory is just not acceptable. If > one of these crashes occurs at 10am in the morning then my network > connection (which I plan to use to run a webserver, my domains mail, and > several other services over) will be down untill you get home to reboot > it, somewhere around 5 or 6pm. Another issue is security. I dont like the > idea of someone breaking into the HPUX machine and sniffing all the > traffic in route to my network. That kind of thing does not happen to > routers as they provide few services and are tightly access controlled. > There is also an issue with performance. Routing through the HPUX machine > adds another hop on an already long network path to the internet. And if > the HPUX machine is busy processing a large mail queue or handling a large > number of web hits it's going to adversely affect its routing performance. > Lastly, HPUX was not designed for routing, especially in tight address > spaces (subnets less than class C). The host routing we are doing is a > hack and nothing more. I like to do things right, I dont like hacks. In > the off chance that I want to access something from 216.100.34.32-256 I > wont be able to get to it because HPUX does not understand how to deal > with this subnet. Also the router system is something we both have > administrative control over so that either of us can go into it and see > whats happening with the link. Right now neither myself or Mike have > administrative access to the HPUX machine (nor should we) so we are not > able to troubleshoot problems that arrise. Right now if things act up > regardless of the hour of the day or night we have to contact you to > try to get a handle on the problem, I'm sure you do not wish to be on 24hr > call for the ADSL link, and you shouldnt have to be. These are the reasons > we should use the wireless router as our gateway router rather than the > HPUX machine. > > -- Greg > > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> > <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> > From greg@rage.net Wed Oct 28 08:26:50 1998 Return-Path: <greg@rage.net> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id IAA11782 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ragenet.dyn.ml.org ([204.179.130.117]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA7009 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:23:58 -0800 Received: from localhost (greg@localhost) by ragenet.dyn.ml.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA14875; Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:26:55 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: screamingslave.rage.net: greg owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:26:34 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org cc: Greg Retkowski <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>, hummer@www.hmmwv.net Subject: Re: Router V2 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981028041745.14517A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981028081251.14845A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 757 On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org wrote: > Is it not possible, with the addition of a hub, to have both the HP box > and the wireless router on the same network as the ADSL box? There is > still a security and an accounting issue here, which I will try to address > in a few paragraphs. This is not possible, pacbell routes to 209.232.137.222, whichever box posesses that IP address gets the traffic. > vulnerable to a few exploits. I'd be much happier if the linux box served > as the router and the hummwv box sat behind it - I am confident that I agree, and the years of experience building networks for a living tells me this is the right way to do it. It seems the logical choice; although in all fairness I have not heard the argument for using the HPUX box as the router and perhaps there are some issues here that I'm failing to grasp. Everet, can you please explain why the HPUX box should be the ADSL gateway (besides HPOV, which we've already covered). -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\| "Force is Machine" |/\/\|</a><br> From kevin@kce.com Fri Nov 6 12:40:05 1998 Return-Path: <kevin@kce.com> Received: from corona.beachnet.com (corona.beachnet.com [207.182.224.6]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id MAA29686 for <greg@rage.net>; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:40:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from kpc-nb (kevin-014.bayarea.net [205.219.69.14]) by corona.beachnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-34824U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA215; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:35:09 -0800 X-Sender: kce-2@mail.beachnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 06 Nov 1998 12:35:18 -0800 To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net>, John Detke <john.detke@savesmart.com> From: "Kevin Criqui" <kevin@kce.com> Subject: Re: FW: DSL Class and Info In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981106084818.28530C-100000@screamingslave.ra ge.net> References: <36431CD3.4BB04582@savesmart.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <19981106203508555.AAA215@kevin-014.bayarea.net> Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1331 So you bailed on the wireless connection, eh? Who's your xDSL provider? I have a quote for 384/128 for $89/mo with Flashcom/Pac Bell, but Bell doesn't offer DSL in my CO yet. Next best seems to be 192/192 with Flashcom/Covad for $119/mo. Kevin At 08:51 AM 11/6/98 -0800, Greg Retkowski wrote: > >On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, John Detke wrote: >> >> Sigh, not yet in felton ;( >> >> Greg, how's yours doing? >Works great, its 384, and we usually get that. Latency is about the same >as frame relay. You know, you dont have to have xDSL in your area, just >have LineOfSight to someone who does.... > >-- Greg > > ><a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> ><a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> > From Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com Fri Nov 6 12:56:30 1998 Return-Path: <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com ([207.88.182.9]) by nova.explosive.net (8.8.8/8.8.8/9712.22/JDF) with ESMTP id MAA29833 for <greg@rage.net>; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:56:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from homeless ([192.168.20.116]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with SMTP id AAA16916; Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:53:34 -0800 Date: Fri, 6 Nov 1998 12:54:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Greg Retkowski" <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: Kevin Criqui <kevin@kce.com> cc: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net>, John Detke <john.detke@SaveSmart.Com> Subject: Re: FW: DSL Class and Info In-Reply-To: <19981106203508555.AAA215@kevin-014.bayarea.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981106124905.14082H-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1334 On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Kevin Criqui wrote: > So you bailed on the wireless connection, eh? Who's your xDSL provider? I > have a quote for 384/128 for $89/mo with Flashcom/Pac Bell, but Bell > doesn't offer DSL in my CO yet. Next best seems to be 192/192 with > Flashcom/Covad for $119/mo. > We still have the wireless connection. I live 5+ miles from my CO, no way I'm gettting DSL in there. We've got this guy in santa clara thats got the actual DSL installed at his house. We go through Pacbell and its great performance when it works. The first few weeks it was ~25% down but I think after much bitching the've gotten it fixed. A friend of mine has it through mindstorm (brainstorm? not sure..) and his seems to be reliable but he says their peering arrangements arent all that great, thus has some problems there. I think ours is around $140, thats 384 both ways and a /27 (which we've subnetted to /28's). -- Greg > Kevin > > At 08:51 AM 11/6/98 -0800, Greg Retkowski wrote: > > > >On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, John Detke wrote: > >> > >> Sigh, not yet in felton ;( > >> > >> Greg, how's yours doing? > >Works great, its 384, and we usually get that. Latency is about the same > >as frame relay. You know, you dont have to have xDSL in your area, just > >have LineOfSight to someone who does.... > > > >-- Greg > > > > > ><a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> > ><a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> > > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org Tue Nov 10 11:45:33 1998 Return-Path: <mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com (sirius.savesmart.com [207.88.182.9] (may be forged)) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13250 for <greg@ragenet.dyn.ml.org>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:45:33 -0800 Received: from screamingslave.rage.net ([216.100.34.18]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA8058 for <greg@savesmart.com>; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:42:10 -0800 Received: from ragenet.dyn.ml.org (godzilla.picketwyre.com [216.100.34.28]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA13222; Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:44:11 -0800 Message-ID: <364897CA.4AFB8A21@ragenet.dyn.ml.org> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 11:45:14 -0800 From: Michael Taht <mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: greg@savesmart.com, hummer@www.hmmwv.net, jason@ackley.net Subject: Wireless/rain performance Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 47 I stayed home today (telecommuting/sick(of work)). It's stormy as hell.Pouring rain, gusts well past 30mph, etc. The big tree in the middle of our view is swaying a good 4-5 feet back and forth. The wind just blew the antenna out of alignment. It's hard to see past the end of the lot, it's raining so hard. I realigned it by eye and everything is just cooking along at 12-17ms. And... There is nothing quite so great as having the power flicker several times and having all the critical systems in the house STAY UP. Life is grand when your wireless link rocks! From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Tue Nov 10 12:13:24 1998 -0800 Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 12:11:12 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: Michael Taht <mtaht@ragenet.dyn.ml.org> cc: hummer@www.hmmwv.net, jason@ackley.net Subject: Re: Wireless/rain performance In-Reply-To: <364897CA.4AFB8A21@ragenet.dyn.ml.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981110115948.18270B-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 240 Wow. thats great. OTOH, I mangled my MX records and so my rage.net mail is blackholing. luckily I've got low time settings in my zone file so it'll sort itself out shortly. I noticed the wireless link blink for 5 minutes or so, I guess that was the wind. Remind me when I get home tonight to try to tighten up those mounting bolts. And it looks like internic never bothered with their root servers update last night. -- Greg On Tue, 10 Nov 1998, Michael Taht wrote: > I stayed home today (telecommuting/sick(of work)). > > It's stormy as hell.Pouring rain, gusts well past 30mph, etc. The big > tree in the middle > of our view is swaying a good 4-5 feet back and forth. > > The wind just blew the antenna out of alignment. It's hard to see past > the end of the > lot, it's raining so hard. I realigned it by eye and everything is just > cooking along > at 12-17ms. And... > > There is nothing quite so great as having the power flicker several > times > and having all the critical systems in the house STAY UP. > > Life is grand when your wireless link rocks! > > > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Sat Nov 28 13:19:16 1998 -0800 Date: Sat, 28 Nov 1998 13:19:15 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: mtaht@picketwyre.com cc: Stephen Taht <staht@ibm.net>, jason@ackley.net, markma@human.com, cmefford@avwashington.com, Greg Retkowski <greg@picketwyre.com>, ktaht@independentpictures.com, mischief@maelstrom.org, strambo@warrior.net Subject: Re: Quake 2 today at 3PM PST In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981128120241.7291F-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981128130948.7707A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 332 On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 mtaht@picketwyre.com wrote: > All those prepared to quake2 be prepared at 3... tenatively. > Everyone that may be playing is cc'd here. I assume thats 3pm Left-Coast time? > Jason suggested heat.net for it's major 64 player > maps and stuff. you need to get some patches off of heat.net and sign up > as a user.... They have linux patches?? heat.net scares me, besides I think I'd rather just us on a given server. Too many people on a server makes the game virutally unplayable in my opinion. Although 64 player maps sounds appealing. > > Do you have a server > > running? > > I think that would give me an unfair advantage. That said, I think I > need every advantage I can get.... so I'll gladly dedicate my raid box > to the task at some point... be a good test of the wireless link. I just started up a server, and changed my dns appropriately. Last time we tried multiple clients here it freaked out pacbell's ADSL throttling mechanism and everyone got lagged out really badly. Anyway, I'm willing to give it a try. currently theres a server running on quake.rage.net (or try screamingslave.rage.net). -- Greg Quote of the day: <obra> microsoft are not the borg. the borg have decent networking. <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Fri Dec 18 09:00:27 1998 -0800 Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 09:00:26 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Reply-To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: "Jan B. Koum " <jkb@best.com> cc: homeless@rage.net Subject: Re: Roomate wanted, Mtn home w/ bandwidth. In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.05.9812180129220.8211-100000@shell6.ba.best.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981218085440.15389E-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 431 On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Jan B. Koum wrote: > First important question is: what is the bandwidth? :) We have a 1 megabit wireless link point-to-point to a house in Santa Clara, the house has got 384K (up and down) ADSL through pacbell (their network has pretty low latency, better peering than brainstorm). > Second most important question is: will you take a FreeBSD > geek instead? :) Sure! > How far do you think approx is the commute from your place to: 15 to 20 minutes to these places, this also depends on time-of-day... If your still interested why dont you come up some time this weekend. Just call us and let us know the exact time beforehand. Directions follow.. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> Directions: From most points in the bay area: make your way to 880/17 and drive south. 5 miles south of Los Gatos will be the exit for Redwood Estates (after the big 40mph curves) Exit and turn right. Follow the main road (Madrone) up into the mountain. About 100 feet after the third speed bump we'll be the blue house on the right (opposite the garage). Park wherever convienient! The address is 21400 Madrone Drive, Redwood Estates. The phone number is 408-353-4650. From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Sat Dec 19 01:09:31 1998 -0800 Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 01:09:31 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Reply-To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: mtaht@rage.net Subject: wireless howto stuff. Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981218235526.638F-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 436 Antennas: 24 dBi Parabolic Grid, 2.4Ghz w/ N female connector. 189.00 each, (PN: WR2400-24) (http://www.winncom.com/prod004.html) from Winncom Technologies 30700 Carter Street, Unit A Solon, OH 44139 440-489-9500 The most custom part of this setup is that the arlan cards use a very special (hard to get) type connector, a Reverse-Polarity TNC (RP-TNC). This is probably where most people will run into trouble. The connector is so rare, there are no adapters, the user must make an adapter. They need the RP-TNC.to.RJ58 connector, a N-Type(Fem).to.RJ58 connector, and about 6 or so inches of RJ58 cable (the shorter the better). They then use the cable to connect the two connectors together (therefore making an adapter (or as we call it 'the tail')). T-type fem's are easy to find, RJ58 cable is easy to find. To connect it together the'll prolly need a coax stripper, crimper and a solder gun. As far as constructing the tail, beats me, I faked it and it seems to work. They can then connect their router to their antenna using an easy to find N-Type(male) cable of the required length. The RP-TNC can be obtained through any Amphenol dealer, its part number is '31-5677'. The connectors are roughly $5 each, however the dealer may require a minimum order (say $50). We got ours through.. TTI Inc PO Drawer 99111 Fort Worth, TX 76199-0111 (817)740-9000 As far as maps go, I'd have to recomend (to our readers) that they get a good high-quality topographic map, rather than attempting to use street maps. Street maps are meant for people following streets, whereas topo maps are for outdoorsy type folks who rely on their compases (as do antenna aligners). These maps will accurately orient north with a compas, and will document the magnetic declination for a given area (Most of the bay area is 17' east of true). It'll also prove helpfull for those in hilly areas (to judge where your LOS is blocked). Perhaps we should have a section on orienteering (as most geeks dont get out to the woods much). Find out your magnetic declination for your area (probably on the map somewhere) Set your map on a flat surface. Lay your compas on top of the map. Align the north-south line of the compas with the vertical line on the map. Then rotate the map (and compas) the approprate number of degrees for your area (for the bay area that would be rotating it 17' west (left)). Your map is now oriented so that its direction corresponds to the real world. Next draw a line (with pencil probably) connecting your two nodes. Lay the compass on the line, so that its parallel with the line. Your compas may look something like that below. You now know which way your antennas should point, down to a few degrees. Use these readings to align your antennas. _IMPORTANT_ make sure your equipment is not up and running while using your compass. The transmitters will interfere with your magnetic compass readings. o N \ ^ \ | \| | |\ | \ o Other stuff: its helpfull to make a troubleshooting disk. This is done by making a dos-bootable floppy, and copying the arlandgs.exe file. (this should probably be tested, may need other files). This boot disk will be needed to hardcode values into the arlan card (on inital setup). Prolly should recommend getting everything running localy with the arlan supplied rubber-duckies (flex anntenas), once the LRP/drivers/cards are confirmed working then be ambitious with directional antennas, cabling, and the rest of the hardware hacks. As far as serial consoles go, I've allways liked having a single basic plug on a network device, and its alot easier to lug a laptop or connect a null modem than to plug up a monitor and keyboard. some situations require this (like if the system just refuses to boot), however most of the time a serial console set up on the LRP box will get you in (regardless of how badly you hosed the network). Our box up north doesnt even have a video card. You may want to mention getting around diskspace problems (namely by installing tftp on the routers, and grabbing things like snmp from tftp servers and installing from there). Also cover backups of the router with tftp (put /dev/fd0 router.img). <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Sun Dec 20 22:48:46 1998 -0800 Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 22:48:45 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Ian Kluft <ikluft@thunder.sbay.org> Subject: Re: [svlug] SBAY Pizza Reminder - Saturday 12/19 (fwd) In-Reply-To: <m0zr8bM-00080SC@zot.kluft.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981220224709.13835B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 438 Hi Ian, Missed this message by two days (guess I should check my mail more often). I looked at sbay.org, but could find no information on the SBAY wireless project. Could you supply or point me to more information? Thanks! -- Greg On Fri, 18 Dec 1998, Ian Kluft wrote: > Date: Fri, 18 Dec 1998 14:42:28 -0800 (PST) > From: Ian Kluft <ikluft@thunder.sbay.org> > To: SVLUG list <svlug@svlug.org> > Subject: [svlug] SBAY Pizza Reminder - Saturday 12/19 (fwd) > > As usual, the SBAY Wireless Project will be among the many subjects of > discussion at the SBAY Pizza on Saturday evening (after the SVLUG > Installfest.) > -- > Ian Kluft KO6YQ PP-ASEL http://www.kluft.com/~ikluft/ sbay.org coordinator > ikluft@thunder.sbay.org (home) ikluft@cisco.com (work) San Jose, CA > > >From: ikluft@thunder.sbay.org (Ian Kluft) > >Subject: SBAY Pizza Reminder - Saturday 12/19 > >To: [sbay.org administrators list] > > > >Remember, SBAY Pizzas are on 3rd Saturdays at 7PM - mark your calendar. > >The directions (which are also on the www.sbay.org web site) are: > > > >4th Quarter 1998 > > * December 19, 1998: Round Table at 5440 Thornwood Dr in South San > > Jose at the 85/87 interchange. Take Santa Teresa from the > > interchange one block southbound. Turn right on Thornwood and > > right again at the first parking lot. (From Blossom Hill Blvd go > > north one block on Santa Teresa and turn left at Thornwood.) > > > >In addition to the usual discussion, we'll continue talking about the > >SBAY Wireless Project as well. > > > >As the web page says, "The discussions are usually semi-advanced to expert > >in level, among people involved or interested in administration of > >electronic communications systems including IP, UseNet, e-mail, UUCP, > >radio or telephony." What we can't say on the web page is that one common > >subject is the "PacBell Blunder of the Month". Bring good stuff to talk > >about! > > > -- > echo "unsubscribe svlug" | mail majordomo@svlug.org > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ to unsubscribe > see http://www.svlug.org/mdstuff/lists.shtml for posting guidelines. > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Mon Dec 28 15:30:20 1998 -0800 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 15:30:19 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Reply-To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Greg Herlein <gherlein@herlein.com> Subject: Re: Employment? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981228150342.20020B-300000@sofia.herlein.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981228151934.17439A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 451 On Mon, 28 Dec 1998, Greg Herlein wrote: > I noted your totally cool new minihowto on Wireless routers and > wondered if you guys might be available... I've attached test > files of the two positions I am hoping to fill. Interested? > > Drop me a line. :) I might be interested in something. We live in the Santa Cruz mountains, so I for one would not look forward to commuting to San Francisco every day. I'm sure we can work something out on that end. My resume is available at http://www.rage.net/people/greg/resume.txt. I don't see myself as a good fit for either of the positions you've got available; however you can feel free to contact me regarding positions I might be a good fit for. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Mon Dec 28 16:34:27 1998 -0800 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:31:09 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: sgml first pass Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981228163004.8784A-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 452 http://www.rage.net/people/greg/wireless_howto.html -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Tue Dec 29 17:16:21 1998 -0800 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 17:13:00 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless Reply-To: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> To: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: cleaning up our netmask Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981229165544.9268A-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 457 Hey, 128-159 is unused, best I can tell. If we use this block instead of 192, then we can have a nice /26 netmask for both networks, cleaning up routing and firewalling. we also need to fix reverse for 242 to say 'pinion.rage.net' (or change as noted below). I've also thought about some routing aggrigation, with the benifit of making better use of our space. What routing protocols does that switch use? OSPF? It would be nice to make it so we're not copying a bunch of static routes around, although managing a routing protocol is going to require we have better access to the management stuff. -- Greg 207.104.7.0/26 HMMWVNET 207.104.7.0/27 207.104.7.32/27 207.104.7.64/26 UNALLOCATED 207.104.7.64/27 207.104.7.96/27 207.104.7.128/26 RAGENET 207.104.7.128/27 207.104.7.160/27 207.104.7.192/27 UNALLOCATED 207.104.7.224/28 UNALLOCATED 207.104.7.240/29 UNALLOCATED 207.104.7.248/30 UNALLOCATED 207.104.7.252/30 WIRELESS <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Mon Jan 4 15:52:51 1999 -0800 Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 15:49:28 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless Reply-To: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> To: "G. Del Merritt" <del@lincoln.midcoast.com> cc: linux-router@linuxrouter.org Subject: Re: [LRP] superformat binary? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990104142808.00b8a3c0@lincoln.midcoast.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990104134455.10977A-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 472 On Mon, 4 Jan 1999, G. Del Merritt wrote: > Would some kind soul consider plopping a binary of superformat into: > ftp://ftp.psychosis.com/linux/linux-router-devel/incoming/ How about ftp://ftp.rage.net/pub/Wireless/superformat ? > I realize superformat may depend on a library not loaded in the standard > LRP idiot distribution. TNSTAAFL. Actually it'll work just fine... -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From del@lincoln.midcoast.com Mon Jan 4 18:50:31 1999 Return-Path: <del@lincoln.midcoast.com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com (sirius.savesmart.com [207.88.182.9] (may be forged)) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18755 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:50:20 -0800 Received: from lincoln.midcoast.com ([206.26.227.194]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA23373 for <greg@SaveSmart.Com>; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 18:46:53 -0800 Received: from dmerritt_me (modem-c-069.midcoast.com [208.153.20.69]) by lincoln.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA26390 for <greg@SaveSmart.Com>; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:43:32 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990104213905.00949800@lincoln.midcoast.com> X-Sender: del@lincoln.midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 21:39:05 -0500 To: Greg Retkowski <greg@SaveSmart.Com> From: "G. Del Merritt" <del@lincoln.midcoast.com> Subject: Re: [LRP] superformat binary? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990104134455.10977A-100000@homeless> References: <3.0.5.32.19990104142808.00b8a3c0@lincoln.midcoast.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1754 At 03:49 PM 1/4/99 -0800, you wrote: >> Would some kind soul consider plopping a binary of superformat into: >> ftp://ftp.psychosis.com/linux/linux-router-devel/incoming/ > >How about ftp://ftp.rage.net/pub/Wireless/superformat ? Thanks. I needed that. -Del From majordom@psychosis.com Mon Jan 4 20:21:03 1999 Return-Path: <majordom@psychosis.com> Received: from schizo.psychosis.com (cc491161-a.avnl1.nj.home.com [24.3.133.48]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA19655 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 20:21:02 -0800 Received: from majordom by schizo.psychosis.com with local (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0zxMuN-0002gj-00 (Message Psychofied Boff! Ba-Ba-Booey! Ba-Ba-Booey!) ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:11:51 -0500 Received: from (lincoln.midcoast.com) [206.26.227.194] by schizo.psychosis.com with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #1) id 0zxMuI-0002gZ-00 (Message Psychofied Boff! Ba-Ba-Booey! Ba-Ba-Booey!) ; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:11:46 -0500 Received: from dmerritt_me (modem-c-069.midcoast.com [208.153.20.69]) by lincoln.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA31829; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:05:27 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990104220456.00bdcc80@lincoln.midcoast.com> X-Sender: del@lincoln.midcoast.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 22:04:56 -0500 To: Greg Retkowski <greg@SaveSmart.Com> From: "G. Del Merritt" <del@lincoln.midcoast.com> Subject: Re: [LRP] superformat binary? Cc: linux-router@linuxrouter.org In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990104134455.10977A-100000@homeless> References: <3.0.5.32.19990104142808.00b8a3c0@lincoln.midcoast.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Precedence: bulk Sender: majordom <majordom@psychosis.com> Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1756 At 03:49 PM 1/4/99 -0800, Greg Retkowski wrote: >> Would some kind soul consider plopping a binary of superformat into: >> ftp://ftp.psychosis.com/linux/linux-router-devel/incoming/ > >How about ftp://ftp.rage.net/pub/Wireless/superformat ? > >> I realize superformat may depend on a library not loaded in the standard >> LRP idiot distribution. TNSTAAFL. > >Actually it'll work just fine... Hmm. Looks like it requires mformat. Got a pointer to that? Thanks again... -- -Del <*> PGP key: http://lincoln.midcoast.com/~del/pgp.html Yesterday it worked / Today it is not working / Windows is like that --- Linux Router Project -- http://www.linuxrouter.org/ linux-router-request@linuxrouter.org Body: un/subscribe Problems? dcinege@psychosis.com From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Tue Jan 5 12:51:54 1999 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 12:48:29 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: wireless@rage.net Subject: whats this for? Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990105124035.11396A-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 480 Hi other memebers of the wireless alias, I'm not clear on what this alias is for.. Is it a forum for discussing wireless issues, or is it a method for contacting the authors/representitives of the wireless howto? if its the former I propose putting it under majordomo and making the list available to the common public. Guess it depends to what degree this project is to go to the public. We already have the 'wireless howto', and idiot-disks. I'm supposing the next steps are: a mailing list, a website with links to the mailing list, software, and howto, and perhaps a CVS server (depending on the development model for the driver, and what other stuff belongs in revision control other than the howto). Couldn't hurt to put up some of the pictures we have of the development of the wireless stuff. Still need an antenna shot! Anyway folks, lemme know. PS: looks like a failure on the pacbell side this morning from the hours of 4:30 to 5:30 AM. I suspect its their route flapping again. I'll keep an eye on it this week and see if anything else turns up in the logs. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Tue Jan 5 14:02:49 1999 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 13:59:24 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@savesmart.com> X-Sender: greg@homeless To: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: wireless in cvs Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990105135738.11396B-100000@homeless> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 481 I've put wireless stuff into cvs... wireless/arlan: arlan driver wireless/docs: howto (and any other generated documentation) -- greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From mtaht@picketwyre.com Tue Jan 5 14:05:40 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from sirius.savesmart.com (sirius.savesmart.com [207.88.182.9] (may be forged)) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA30855 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:05:39 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from rage.net ([207.104.7.162]) by sirius.savesmart.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-54039U500L100S0V35) with ESMTP id AAA20328 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:02:11 -0800 Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA30794 for <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:02:25 -0800 Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 14:02:25 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@screamingslave.rage.net To: Greg Retkowski <Greg.Retkowski@SaveSmart.Com> Subject: Re: whats this for? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990105124035.11396A-100000@homeless> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990105140135.30625C-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1842 I set it up originally as the latter (just an alias for us three), but I suppose that we should take the steps as outlined by your email. wireless.cx is available and cheap/free of charge. ________ mike "What can Microsoft do? They certainly can't program around us. And the only other thing they can do is marketing, and sure -- let them try. But, we'll see." Linus Torvalds, his Chesire Cat grin still in place, - from zdnet From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Thu Jan 7 13:49:21 1999 -0800 Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:49:16 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Reply-To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Mario Rafael <mrafael@arrakis.es> cc: mtaht@picketwyre.com, hummer@hmmwv.net Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19990105022712.006999e8@linux1.mega.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990107134312.28365B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 498 On Tue, 5 Jan 1999, Mario Rafael wrote: > Hi, I saw your Wireless Router Howto and I would like to do the same as > you, the problem is that you are in open-land I live in a big city (Madrid, > Spain). Reading your document I cant figure out if it is really necessary > that the two antennas see each other. Could you pless help me?.. my > electronics, radio knoledge is not very good :). Oh, I'm not too familiar with the characteristics of the 2.4Ghz frequency, we didnt really have to address this in our setup. I'm forwarding this to Everet, our resident ham; perhaps he'll be able to give you more information on this. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Fri Jan 8 16:24:16 1999 -0800 Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 16:24:16 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Reply-To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Mike Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> cc: "Steven B. Lord" <sblord@dickdavis.com>, mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: Re: Wireless Router/Starting companies/Stock/Tech In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.4.02A.9901081434360.17028-100000@soda-pop.corpnet.sel.sony.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990108153501.14422A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 511 The market I see for the current incarnation of the wireless project is to replace the frame relay and leased T1 intra-metropolitan business market. This stuff would be good for the business looking to connect all of their offices in a metroplitan area, circumventing the telco and associated baggage such as lead-times and metered service. The haris chip is a good idea, but this is the wrong application for it. It is more suited for a ethernet replacement than a long-haul media. On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Mike Taht wrote: more > > have you given thought to forming your own > > firm and exectuting this idea en masse? (I'm sure you have - just curious...) > > We've put a lot of thought into the idea. There is enormous potential in > the budding wireless market, but there are problems, too. I'll send you a > followup this weekend. > > A teaser: Ever hear of Heathkit? The market I see for the current incarnation of the wireless project is to replace the frame relay and leased T1 intra-metropolitan business market. This stuff would be good for the business looking to connect all of their offices in a metroplitan area, circumventing the telco and associated baggage such as lead-times and metered service. Now as far as how that's packaged is a whole other subject. Perhaps the equipment and support is 'leased', heathkit'ed out (although support for that would be an issue), or bult and sold like any other router. To the best of my knowledge, most wireless products fall into two areas. First you buy a wireless router and deal with it yourself; second is to get wireless Internet service through an ISP who provide support and may or may not lease the equipment. A third market area may be to be the 'wireless phone company', leasing, setting up, and maintaining the equipment.. targeting interconnecting offices, internet access completely optional. If you depreciate the equipment over a year its about 100/mo, anything above that would cover providing service; perhaps $50 to $100. If an install on each end takes 3 hours, and that person is paid $40/hr this setup looks really attractive when compared to frame or leased T1. Local_Telco Wireless Equipment $3000 (cisco, TSU) $0 (Leased) Install $1000 (Bell install) $150 (3hrs @ 40/hr & Parts) Monthly $380 (T1, _low_ CIR) $200 (Deprec & service) Lead Time 30 Days 7 Days The stipulation is that your two points be less than 16 miles from each other and that you've got rooftop access. The boxes are also have most of the features you'd expect with a cisco router (routing protocols, snmp support, etc...) > > > Along the same lines, is there one (or two) major vendor the idea relies on? > > In this case, the manufacturer "aironet.com" is the only vendor we > can get the radio cards from. > > A newer technology which does 11Mbit/sec (slightly faster than standard > ethernet) wireless has strong potential, with 5+ vendors to choose from. > This tech is used in the cyrix web padd (something else you should check > out). Currently this tech is distance limited to 300 ft, but this is > fixable with amplifiers. The haris chip is a good idea, but this is the wrong application for it. It is more suited for a ethernet (LAN) replacement than a long-haul media. Amplifiers may not do the trick without angering the FCC, see below.. > > One question, though - does the FCC > > have to sign off on this stuff? > > The 2.4 Ghz band is open to the "public". The new 5.7 Ghz band is > particularly sexy, most products that use it will be introduced sometime > this year.... Its 'public' in that you may operate radio equipment in that spectrum without an FCC license, but there are many stipulations on the equipment you can use. The FCC has regulations on the radiated power output, which is a fuction of antenna gain and radio output. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From sblord@dickdavis.com Mon Jan 11 09:09:18 1999 Return-Path: <sblord@dickdavis.com> Received: from llama.ackley.net (llama.ackley.net [170.1.68.2]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00810 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:09:14 -0800 Received: from www.dickdavis.com (IDENT:root@www.dickdavis.com [208.153.114.131]) by llama.ackley.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id FAA22701 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 05:56:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from dickdavis.com (fw1.dickdavis.com [208.153.114.130]) by www.dickdavis.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA19484 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 11 Jan 1999 08:56:37 -0500 Message-ID: <369A047D.EB44B41A@dickdavis.com> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 09:02:37 -0500 From: "Steven B. Lord" <sblord@dickdavis.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Subject: Re: Wireless Router/Starting companies/Stock/Tech References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990108153501.14422A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 71 Greg, Thanks for your mail - as Mike has probably told you, I am long on ideas but pretty short on the technical side of things. Nonetheless, the cost difference between your idea and the traditional T1 is SO huge there is clearly a market there. The question remains on how to best (i.e. most profitably) access it. I'm still mulling this all over and will be mailing Mike some ideas later this week. Thanks again, Steve Greg Retkowski wrote: > The market I see for the current incarnation of the wireless project is to > replace the frame relay and leased T1 intra-metropolitan business market. > This stuff would be good for the business looking to connect all of their > offices in a metroplitan area, circumventing the telco and associated > baggage such as lead-times and metered service. > > The haris chip is a good idea, but this is the wrong application for it. > It is more suited for a ethernet replacement than a long-haul media. > > On Fri, 8 Jan 1999, Mike Taht wrote: > more > > have you given thought to forming your own > > > firm and exectuting this idea en masse? (I'm sure you have - just curious...) > > > > We've put a lot of thought into the idea. There is enormous potential in > > the budding wireless market, but there are problems, too. I'll send you a > > followup this weekend. > > > > A teaser: Ever hear of Heathkit? > > The market I see for the current incarnation of the wireless project is to > replace the frame relay and leased T1 intra-metropolitan business market. > This stuff would be good for the business looking to connect all of their > offices in a metroplitan area, circumventing the telco and associated > baggage such as lead-times and metered service. > > Now as far as how that's packaged is a whole other subject. Perhaps the > equipment and support is 'leased', heathkit'ed out (although support for > that would be an issue), or bult and sold like any other router. To the > best of my knowledge, most wireless products fall into two areas. First > you buy a wireless router and deal with it yourself; second is to get > wireless Internet service through an ISP who provide support and may or > may not lease the equipment. A third market area may be to be the > 'wireless phone company', leasing, setting up, and maintaining the > equipment.. targeting interconnecting offices, internet access completely > optional. > > If you depreciate the equipment over a year its about 100/mo, anything > above that would cover providing service; perhaps $50 to $100. If an > install on each end takes 3 hours, and that person is paid $40/hr this > setup looks really attractive when compared to frame or leased T1. > > Local_Telco Wireless > Equipment $3000 (cisco, TSU) $0 (Leased) > Install $1000 (Bell install) $150 (3hrs @ 40/hr & Parts) > Monthly $380 (T1, _low_ CIR) $200 (Deprec & service) > Lead Time 30 Days 7 Days > > The stipulation is that your two points be less than 16 miles from each > other and that you've got rooftop access. The boxes are also have most of > the features you'd expect with a cisco router (routing protocols, snmp > support, etc...) > > > > > > Along the same lines, is there one (or two) major vendor the idea relies on? > > > > In this case, the manufacturer "aironet.com" is the only vendor we > > can get the radio cards from. > > > > A newer technology which does 11Mbit/sec (slightly faster than standard > > ethernet) wireless has strong potential, with 5+ vendors to choose from. > > This tech is used in the cyrix web padd (something else you should check > > out). Currently this tech is distance limited to 300 ft, but this is > > fixable with amplifiers. > > The haris chip is a good idea, but this is the wrong application for it. > It is more suited for a ethernet (LAN) replacement than a long-haul media. > > Amplifiers may not do the trick without angering the FCC, see below.. > > > > One question, though - does the FCC > > > have to sign off on this stuff? > > > > The 2.4 Ghz band is open to the "public". The new 5.7 Ghz band is > > particularly sexy, most products that use it will be introduced sometime > > this year.... > > Its 'public' in that you may operate radio equipment in that spectrum > without an FCC license, but there are many stipulations on the equipment > you can use. The FCC has regulations on the radiated power output, > which is a fuction of antenna gain and radio output. > > -- Greg > > <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> > <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From robert@actcomm.dartmouth.edu Tue Jan 19 14:11:10 1999 Return-Path: <robert@actcomm.dartmouth.edu> Received: from mailhub.dartmouth.edu (mailhub.dartmouth.edu [129.170.16.6]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA02752 for <wireless@rage.net>; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:11:03 -0800 Received: from robert (robert.dartmouth.edu [129.170.24.97]) by mailhub.dartmouth.edu (8.9.1+DND/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA06206 for <wireless@rage.net>; Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:07:12 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199901192207.RAA06206@mailhub.dartmouth.edu> X-Sender: robert@actcomm.dartmouth.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 17:08:18 -0500 To: wireless@rage.net From: "Robert K. Grube" <robert@actcomm.dartmouth.edu> Subject: Hardware Compatibility Question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 307 Hi; Do you happen to know if Digital's RoamAbout network adaptors are compatible with your setup? This is the major issue I have to resolve, since we are seeking to implement a fairly simple LAN using your group's experience in Linux wireless routing. Thanks in advance, Robert From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Sun Jan 24 22:26:08 1999 -0800 Date: Sun, 24 Jan 1999 22:26:07 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: mtaht@rage.net Subject: ... Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990124222531.9888B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 592 Hey, where ya at on the wireless howto? I'd like to change our howto pages over to the sgml version at some point... <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From mtaht@picketwyre.com Wed Feb 3 17:08:34 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA04481 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:08:34 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 17:08:34 -0800 (PST) From: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> X-Sender: mtaht@screamingslave.rage.net To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Subject: Re: phone message In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990203164843.15254g-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990203170729.3823A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 913 Do you have any interest in making 4-5gs and going off the wireless internet for a week or more? Scott has a provider in DEEP trouble that needs a T1 *today*. ________ mike "What can Microsoft do? They certainly can't program around us. And the only other thing they can do is marketing, and sure -- let them try. But, we'll see." Linus Torvalds, his Chesire Cat grin still in place, - from zdnet From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Tue Feb 9 10:06:19 1999 -0800 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 10:06:19 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: donovan arellano <donovan@alaskalife.net> cc: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: Re: Arlan Wireless Router Howto In-Reply-To: <00a901be5453$dcb327e0$c54a0ecf@-home> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990209095650.886I-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 772 On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, donovan arellano wrote: > I found your project about a month ago while cruz'n the web and was > wondering how it was going? I am very interested in setting up a simular > instance of your project here in, Anchorage, Alaska. Other then what is > on your web site (which I can't seem to get to now) is there any more > information on setting this up? Do I need a license from the FCC to do > this? and so on? No license needed, its part of the Amateur radio band, and the power output does not exceed FCC limits. Sorry about the website being down, we had some problems with the power company last night. Most of the resources are on the website (updated just now) and at the ftp site (ftp://ftp.rage.net/pub/Wireless/). Of course there is also our email, we are glad to help with any questions you may have. -- Greg <a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> <a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> From donovan@alaskalife.net Wed Feb 10 13:08:45 1999 Return-Path: <donovan@alaskalife.net> Received: from mail2.alaskalife.net (mail2.alaskalife.net [207.14.64.5]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25553 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:08:44 -0800 Received: from ATHENA ([207.14.64.6]) by mail2.alaskalife.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.977.9); Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:09:14 -0900 Received: from 0109330e - 207.14.74.78 by alaskalife.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:07:42 -0900 Message-ID: <008b01be5539$2f960410$a105a997@0109330e.alyeska-pipeline.com> From: "Donovan Arellano" <donovan@alaskalife.net> To: "Greg Retkowski" <greg@rage.net> Subject: Re: Arlan Wireless Router Howto Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:06:10 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1149 Greg, has there been any implementation with the PC4800 PCMCIA Wireless LAN Adapter...I am trying to make this as small as possible and have a couple of laptops that I could test this with...just curious. Donovan -----Original Message----- From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: donovan arellano <donovan@alaskalife.net> Cc: mtaht@picketwyre.com <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Date: Tuesday, February 09, 1999 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Arlan Wireless Router Howto >On Tue, 9 Feb 1999, donovan arellano wrote: >> I found your project about a month ago while cruz'n the web and was >> wondering how it was going? I am very interested in setting up a simular >> instance of your project here in Anchorage, Alaska. Other then what is >> on your web site (which I can't seem to get to now) is there any more >> information on setting this up? Do I need a license from the FCC to do >> this? and so on? > >No license needed, its part of the Amateur radio band, and the power >output does not exceed FCC limits. Sorry about the website being down, we >had some problems with the power company last night. Most of the resources >are on the website (updated just now) and at the ftp site >(ftp://ftp.rage.net/pub/Wireless/). Of course there is also our email, we >are glad to help with any questions you may have. > >-- Greg > > ><a href="mailto:greg@rage.net">|\/\/| Greg Retkowski |\/\/|</a><br> ><a href="http://www.rage.net/">|/\/\|"Save the Factories"|/\/\|</a><br> > From mtaht Fri Feb 12 22:36:14 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht> Received: (from mtaht@localhost) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id WAA32304 for greg; Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:36:14 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 22:36:14 -0800 From: mtaht@rage.net Message-Id: <199902130636.WAA32304@rage.net> To: greg@rage.net Subject: Crosslinked Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1191 http://www-uk.hpl.hp.com/people/jt/Linux/Wireless.html Slowly getting famouser. From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Thu Feb 18 16:58:49 1999 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 16:58:48 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: our little project. Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990218164958.25262E-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 929 Yay for Linux Internet Appliances! I scrubbed the corrosion off the motherboard of the old Pinion box and guess what? It booted! I hearby dub it LintTrap, and provide it for use on a junkbusting linux internet appliance. I'll get cracking on the LRP code for it. The big change I'd like to see for LRP is a central config file that lives on the floppy (not in a tarball somewhere), and when its booted for the first time said config file doesnt exist and a dialog comes up and prompts for an initial configuration. Another cool hook would be to use ucd-snmpd, which allows extensions, and make parts of LRP/Junkbuster configurable through SNMP. Another feature (easily implemented) is automatic download of blockfiles, scheduled via cron.. Anyway, I guess I need to get up to speed on junkbuster, for some reason it was misbehaving today on quick (or perhaps I'm messing up). -- Greg From donovan@alaskalife.net Fri Feb 19 12:29:35 1999 Return-Path: <donovan@alaskalife.net> Received: from mail2.alaskalife.net (mail2.alaskalife.net [207.14.64.5]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11126 for <greg@rage.net>; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 12:29:34 -0800 Received: from ATHENA ([207.14.64.6]) by mail2.alaskalife.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.977.9); Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:30:05 -0900 Received: from 0109330e - 207.14.74.191 by alaskalife.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:29:02 -0900 Message-ID: <007801be5c46$3941eb00$7003a997@0109330e.alyeska-pipeline.com> From: "Donovan Arellano" <donovan@alaskalife.net> To: "Greg Retkowski" <greg@rage.net>, <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Subject: Re: Arlan Wireless Router Howto Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 11:27:07 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1262 thats all right...been beating my head against the wall trying to come up with a design for a machine to do what I want. I have been working with the PC-104 form factor and some of the smaller credit card size PC's to get a network interface and a pcmcia slot to interface the aironet 2200 pcmcia card. I was wondering if you had any luck with using some of the new 4500/4800 cards or better yet is there any development being done with them. One of the designs I am working with uses the same chip as http://wearables.stanford.edu/ anyway any encouragement and knowledge sharing would be of great help...must go for now Donovan -----Original Message----- From: mtaht@picketwyre.com <mtaht@picketwyre.com> To: donovan arellano <donovan@alaskalife.net> Date: Friday, February 19, 1999 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Arlan Wireless Router Howto > >Sorry I haven't replied to this. I don't handle attachments well. > > >________ >mike > >"What can Microsoft do? They certainly can't program > around us. And the only other thing they can do is > marketing, and sure -- let them try. But, we'll see." > Linus Torvalds, his Chesire Cat grin still in place, - from zdnet > > From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Sun Feb 21 00:06:29 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA01284 for <greg@rage.net>; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:06:29 -0800 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.7.1/8.7.1) id AAA07174; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 00:06:38 -0800 (PST) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199902210806.AAA07174@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: Momentary outage To: mtaht@picketwyre.com, greg@rage.net Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 0:06:38 PST X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2] Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1297 Mike/Greg - I'm planning a momentary (1 min) outage to cut power over to the new UPS that's completed testing. It should happen around 12:30 AM and will require the reboot of pinion. If this doesn't work - please call me at 828-2000. Everett From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Sun Feb 21 01:48:30 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA02339 for <greg@rage.net>; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:48:30 -0800 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.7.1/8.7.1) id BAA07210; Sun, 21 Feb 1999 01:48:39 -0800 (PST) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199902210948.BAA07210@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: cutover success To: mtaht@picketwyre.com, greg@rage.net Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 1:48:39 PST X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2] Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1298 Cutover to the new UPS went fast and furious - no problems. The UPS is running at about 20% of rated capacity (rated for 5.5 KVA, actually can dish out 6.0 KVA) Running: DSL modem SMC switching hub Cuenet boxes (2ea) pinion www humvee alarm system access controll and... most importantly... The expresso machine. EFB From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Wed Mar 10 10:54:56 1999 -0800 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:54:54 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: cfb <cfb@nirai.ne.jp> cc: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: Re: Wireless HOWTO In-Reply-To: <32CDA9BC.2751CCD9@ocn21.kdd-ok.ne.jp> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990310103429.6287B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1049 On Sat, 4 Jan 1997, cfb wrote: > I have a couple of question that didn't seem to be covered in the > Wireless Router Howto or any of the associated links. First, you > mentioned that omni-directional antennas would cost quite a bit more. > Is there any particular reason why and do you have any cost figures for > omni-directional antennas? Seconds, what's the maximum density for leaf > nodes using an omni-directional base station with the Aironet gear? I > checked their web site but could not find any specifications. I'm not sure on the number of nodes it'll support, but it is meant to be a 'LAN' technology so a restrictive number of nodes wouldn't make much sense to the manufacturer. I didn't say omni's would cost much more, perhaps that was someone else's (we've had several contributors to the document) comment. The Omni's I've seen so far cost more than parabolics but not much more. We've got a fairly long run (13.5 miles, or 22km) so chances are omni's wouldn't work for us, however at 3-5km I'd guess they'll probably work fine. > I am very interested in connection two routers configured with > omni-directional antannas on both ends (between 3-5 km apart). There is > a very good chance that I might be able to put together such a project > in the next 3 to 4 months if I am able to find the answers to the above > questions ( and other questions I bump into along the way ). I would be > more than willing to supply you with feed back and generally contribute > to your Wireless Router Howto. Check out http://www.ylenurme.ee/~elmer/655/, one of the pages where we originally found the arlan drivers. They are using a system with an omni-directional antenna at the center, and parabolics radiating out up to 9km away. > I'm also looking for a good supplier of weatherized computer cases for > my linux boxen, as the buildings that I will place the routers at would > required a cable run longer than 10 feet to get the linux box inside. I don't have a source for weatherproof cases, however I will check up on cable length restrictions and others experences with installations, perhaps I'll find something helpful. -- Greg From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Wed Mar 10 11:01:40 1999 -0800 Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:01:38 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Elmer.Joandi@ut.ee Subject: Installation Experiences Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990310105500.6287C-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1050 Hi Elmer, I recently got an inquiry with questions about some of the installation aspects of setting up Linux-Arlan WAN routers. At our location we are using 10 foot cables which run into our building, with the PC/router inside. I was wondering how you did it for the network you set up, and what your experiences are with cable length and just general installation of the routers. Any information you can send would be great. Thanks. -- Greg From cfb@nirai.ne.jp Fri Mar 12 01:26:03 1999 Return-Path: <cfb@nirai.ne.jp> Received: from nirai.ne.jp (ns01.nirai.ne.jp [202.239.129.83]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA08587 for <greg@rage.net>; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:26:01 -0800 Received: from ocn21.kdd-ok.ne.jp (admin@nhr1-172.nirai.ne.jp [10.1.10.172]) by nirai.ne.jp (8.9.1/3.7W+03/04/99) with ESMTP id SAA06090; Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:21:35 +0900 (JST) Sender: admin@nirai.ne.jp Message-ID: <36E8DC9E.DB85BD77@ocn21.kdd-ok.ne.jp> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:21:34 +0900 From: cfb <cfb@nirai.ne.jp> Reply-To: cfb@nirai.ne.jp Organization: on a stick. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.2 i686) X-Accept-Language: ja, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> CC: akamine@sunny-net.ne.jp Subject: Re: Installation Experiences (fwd) References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990311193538.32517J-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1600 Greg Retkowski wrote: > Hi, > I just got mail from Elmer, he's using 10 meter (30 foot) cables.. You > should be able to get away with these longer cable lengths, if you use > high-quality cable. > > -- Greg > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 01:55:04 +0200 > From: Elmer Joandi <elmer@ylenurme.ee> > To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> > Subject: Re: Installation Experiences > > Greg Retkowski wrote: > > I have 10 meter cables generally, also on out > 24dbidirectional<-9km->15dbiomni link on both sides for 655. > > But other suggestions - they are quite specific to installation. There are of > course 1000 tiny pieces of useful info, but I recall it only when there is a > problem. > > elmer. Thanks for the information... I already have two spare 486 66mhz standing by. All I need now is to find a good supplier for the Aironet cards and omni directional antennas (and san disk IDE interface cards). Any suggestions? I searched archives of the USENET forsale groups, ISP equipment forsale mailing lists and even ebay when very little luck. Initially, we're just going to set up a point to point connection less than 2km apart using omni directional antennas. After that, I would like to see how the PCMCIA cards preform with the external omni directional antennas. I will probably use Fugawi, a Garmin 12XL and a laptop to qualify reception. Most of the buildings in the initial test area are less than 5 floors, so I'm hoping the multi-path isn't too much of a problem, but the next couple of stations are probably going to go into areas that have an average of 10 floors per building. We'll probably stick to LOS and high-ground omni directional hubs in more urban areas. -cfb From aep@nodo50.ix.apc.org Tue Mar 23 04:57:16 1999 Return-Path: <aep@nodo50.ix.apc.org> Received: from llama.ackley.net (llama.ackley.net [170.1.68.2]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id EAA01065 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 04:57:02 -0800 Received: from nodo50.nodo50.org (nodo50.nodo50.org [195.76.188.2]) by llama.ackley.net (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id DAA02799 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 03:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mamacocha.gbt.tfo.upm.es ([138.4.10.56]) by nodo50.nodo50.org (Netscape Messaging Server 3.62) with ESMTP id 66 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 23 Mar 1999 11:58:50 +0100 Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 12:54:19 +0100 (CET) From: <aep@nodo50.org> X-Sender: aep@mamacocha.gbt.tfo.upm.es To: greg@rage.net Subject: LDAP and wireless! Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9903231240080.607-100000@mamacocha.gbt.tfo.upm.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1816 Hi Greg! Alberto from Spain writing to you... World can be very small sometimes... i have been looking for OpenLDAP info and find your Wireless mini-HOWTO... Good work! after reading your HOWTO, may be i think about running a wireless link from my house in the montains to the University where i work 25 miles far away. I am working in wireless solutions for comms in LatinAmerica, learning from the amateur radio know-how. Our main porpouse is to give e-mail access to doctors in isolated areas of LatinAmerica. In the last few years we have been working in VHF (TCP/IP over AX.25 and AX.25 connected mode), HF (PACTOR II, G-TOR and new Digital modes) and LEO (We will start our work with Healthsat-II quite soon). I am finish a LinAX.25 Digital Gateway HOWTO in spanish ..a new document based in the AX.25 HOWTO with some updates about glibc2, modem YAM... I will be very pleased in making a translation of your HOWTO or any other kind of colaboration. Thanks again for the effort that means to write down your experiences in this field... that info was really a good start! from a sunny spring in Spain Alberto Escudero aep@nodo50.ix.apc.org 73s EB4GLO GNU Linux OperativeSystem From cfb@nirai.ne.jp Tue Mar 30 12:14:54 1999 Return-Path: <cfb@nirai.ne.jp> Received: from nirai.ne.jp (ns01.nirai.ne.jp [202.239.129.83]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA15758 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:14:51 -0800 Received: from ocn21.kdd-ok.ne.jp (admin@nhr1-172.nirai.ne.jp [10.1.10.172]) by nirai.ne.jp (8.9.1/3.7W+03/04/99) with ESMTP id FAA01255 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 31 Mar 1999 05:10:02 +0900 (JST) Sender: admin@nirai.ne.jp Message-ID: <37012F9A.CB80490@ocn21.kdd-ok.ne.jp> Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 05:10:02 +0900 From: cfb <cfb@nirai.ne.jp> Reply-To: cfb@nirai.ne.jp Organization: on a stick. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.2 i686) X-Accept-Language: ja, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Subject: Wireless Equipment Info References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990311193538.32517J-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1984 Hi, Sorry to bother you again, but I though you might find the folling information interesting. It would be interesting to know if the existing Aironet linux drivers work with this newer equipment. At a minimum, there are some lower priced higher bandwidth solutions mentioned herein. > Dear CFB: > The reason I asked for more information about the application and the > distances will become obvious: > > The 655/IC2200 is now out of date. You do not need the IC2200 card if you > are not attaching to anything that is already installed. The card that > replaced the IC2200 is the ISA4500 for $595, at 2Mbps, or the ISA4800 for > $695, at 11Mbps. There is also a PCI version for $625 for the 2Mbps and > $725 for the 11Mbps. Both are 802.11 compatible, and both can act as peer > to peer systems, or as part of a hub with an Access Point. > > >I'm building a LRP based gateway box to connect to a building that I have > >line-of-sight to within 1km; however, I would like this gateway to be an > access > >pont for the general area, hence the need for the antenna to be > >omni-directional. > > As stated above, two or more cards will talk to one another in a peer to > peer setup. However, if you really want a multipoint hubbed network, you > should use a standard Access Point as the hub, NOT the ISA/PCI card. The > Access Point is $1,595 for the 2Mbps unit, and $1,695 for the 11Mbps unit. > This will act as a real hub for the area, and allow you to have multiple > systems (other ISAs or PCIs) access the system from a dispersed > geographical area. > > One caveat: the 802.11 standard requires that if you use an Access Point, > the client (PCI/ISA/PCMCIA) can ONLY be 1 mile away. You can get around > this by using a bridge at the central site. These are $2,395 for the > 11Mbps, and $1,895 for the 2Mbps. If you are going to be more than one > mile away from the central site, USE the bridge. > > You will also need a bit bigger omni-directional antenna and longer cable, > as you will need to go to the roof of both buildings to get the link. A > 6dbi omni antenna with 25' of antenna cable will provide up to about 1.5 > miles of signal, provided you go with a strong directional antenna at the > other end. I really do recommend our standard omni antenna at 12.5dbi, so > you get complete coverage, no matter the weather conditions. The 8dbi is > $229, and the 12.5 is $300. The 25' low loss cable is $68. > > At the remote ends, you will need a cable and a directional antenna. I > recommend the 24dbi grid at $225. The combination of the 12.5dbi omni at > the central site and the 24dbi at the remote, will give you about 7-8 miles > of good solid coverage at 11Mbps. > > >I also want to install another access point about 5km away, but I'm not sure > >if I will have clear line of sight to the second building. I'm a little > >worried that I won't be able to connect the two access points by having > >omni-directional antennas installed at both ends. So, I want to get two > units > >(both setup with IC2200 cards and fairly decent omni-directional antennas and > >test which geographical locations will work). My initial budget is fairly > >limited, so if I can get everything up an running with rubber duckie > antennas, > >great; however, I would undoubtedly want upgrade the omni-directional > antennas > >and maybe add a booster (although, that seems to cost an extra $1 to 2k per > >access point). > > The "booster" you are talking about is an amplifier. We provide these for > $650 each, and these provide up to 10dB of added "boost", which is about > 25-40% increase in the signal strength, and therefore distance. > > >I've done some basic map analysis and everything is the right distance, but I > >haven't been able to get on top of the buildings to check for line-of-sight. > >I want to have both rigs built and ready to test, so that when the property > >owners give me the OK, I spend about a week measuring the bandwidth (using > >pathchar) and qualifying the coverage areas of both locations using a laptop, > >fugawai and a Garmin12XL (hence my need to know if any of the Aironet PCMCIA > >offerings work with the IC2200 cards). > > The PCI, ISA, PCMCIA and AP all interoperate. In fact, all of Aironet's > 802.11 products interoperate with each other. (The PCMCIA is $495 for the > 2Mbps and $595 for the 11Mbps). > > >I'm kind of new to this whole thing, but I think the under lying plan is > >solid. It's sort of a small VC experiment for a local ISP. I am also > >interested in how Aironet equipment in a coverage area is "authorized" to use > >a particular leaf node at the layer 2 level (ethernet MAC address > equivalent), > >but I think I've got a pretty good idea how to authenticate using layer 3 > >using routing and/or DHCP. Density is an issue, so if you have any > >information about how many leaf > > I think you are asking how many of these can be installed in a network? If > so, you can install up to the same number as you would a standard Ethernet > NIC, as these are the same, but with a radio addition. For radio > interference, don't be concerned until you have over 50 clients (ISA's, > PCIs or PCMCIA's) operating SIMULTANEOUSLY in the same area. This will > cause a bit of a slow down on the network for two reasons: the system is a > shared environment, and the radios will start to interfere with each other > due to frequency overload in an area. > > >There isn't any legacy equipment involved (other than what I might buy off > the > >used market) and there are currently no interoperability requirements (it > >would be nice if Aironet's PCMCIA equipment worked with the IC2200 card). > > >All distances are under 8 km at the moment. The biggest worry that I have is > >non-line of sight and multi-path issues (and lightening and signal > >interference... there's a boatload of licensed telecom microwave towers > >scattered all over the area). If I start off with two cards/antennas, my > >liability, if this experiment fails is limited. If the test succeeds, I'll > >need two more cards/antennas to get the business plan rolling. ...and after > >that, I'll need inexpensive access points that drop out to ethernet. > > Your distances seem fine, but plan to use the larger antennas for best > results. You CAN start with the Peer to Peer setup, but will have to go to > the Access Point for multiple system access. > > We will NOT interfere with, nor BE interfered with by licensed frequencies, > unless you are installed within a few feet of the licensed antennas on the > same poles. > > Let me know if you want to try this stuff out. I have product in stock. > > Look forward to hearing from you soon. > > Jim Bradfield, Jr. > NAS > jbjrnas@mindspring.com > > > > From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Tue Mar 30 12:49:59 1999 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 12:49:58 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: wireless@rage.net Subject: Wireless Equipment Info (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990330124852.6267G-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1144 More arlan information.. I've been talking to this guy (CFB) on and off, feel free to mail him any responses. -- Greg ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 05:10:02 +0900 From: cfb <cfb@nirai.ne.jp> To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Subject: Wireless Equipment Info Hi, Sorry to bother you again, but I though you might find the folling information interesting. It would be interesting to know if the existing Aironet linux drivers work with this newer equipment. At a minimum, there are some lower priced higher bandwidth solutions mentioned herein. > Dear CFB: > The reason I asked for more information about the application and the > distances will become obvious: > > The 655/IC2200 is now out of date. You do not need the IC2200 card if you > are not attaching to anything that is already installed. The card that > replaced the IC2200 is the ISA4500 for $595, at 2Mbps, or the ISA4800 for > $695, at 11Mbps. There is also a PCI version for $625 for the 2Mbps and > $725 for the 11Mbps. Both are 802.11 compatible, and both can act as peer > to peer systems, or as part of a hub with an Access Point. > > >I'm building a LRP based gateway box to connect to a building that I have > >line-of-sight to within 1km; however, I would like this gateway to be an > access > >pont for the general area, hence the need for the antenna to be > >omni-directional. > > As stated above, two or more cards will talk to one another in a peer to > peer setup. However, if you really want a multipoint hubbed network, you > should use a standard Access Point as the hub, NOT the ISA/PCI card. The > Access Point is $1,595 for the 2Mbps unit, and $1,695 for the 11Mbps unit. > This will act as a real hub for the area, and allow you to have multiple > systems (other ISAs or PCIs) access the system from a dispersed > geographical area. > > One caveat: the 802.11 standard requires that if you use an Access Point, > the client (PCI/ISA/PCMCIA) can ONLY be 1 mile away. You can get around > this by using a bridge at the central site. These are $2,395 for the > 11Mbps, and $1,895 for the 2Mbps. If you are going to be more than one > mile away from the central site, USE the bridge. > > You will also need a bit bigger omni-directional antenna and longer cable, > as you will need to go to the roof of both buildings to get the link. A > 6dbi omni antenna with 25' of antenna cable will provide up to about 1.5 > miles of signal, provided you go with a strong directional antenna at the > other end. I really do recommend our standard omni antenna at 12.5dbi, so > you get complete coverage, no matter the weather conditions. The 8dbi is > $229, and the 12.5 is $300. The 25' low loss cable is $68. > > At the remote ends, you will need a cable and a directional antenna. I > recommend the 24dbi grid at $225. The combination of the 12.5dbi omni at > the central site and the 24dbi at the remote, will give you about 7-8 miles > of good solid coverage at 11Mbps. > > >I also want to install another access point about 5km away, but I'm not sure > >if I will have clear line of sight to the second building. I'm a little > >worried that I won't be able to connect the two access points by having > >omni-directional antennas installed at both ends. So, I want to get two > units > >(both setup with IC2200 cards and fairly decent omni-directional antennas and > >test which geographical locations will work). My initial budget is fairly > >limited, so if I can get everything up an running with rubber duckie > antennas, > >great; however, I would undoubtedly want upgrade the omni-directional > antennas > >and maybe add a booster (although, that seems to cost an extra $1 to 2k per > >access point). > > The "booster" you are talking about is an amplifier. We provide these for > $650 each, and these provide up to 10dB of added "boost", which is about > 25-40% increase in the signal strength, and therefore distance. > > >I've done some basic map analysis and everything is the right distance, but I > >haven't been able to get on top of the buildings to check for line-of-sight. > >I want to have both rigs built and ready to test, so that when the property > >owners give me the OK, I spend about a week measuring the bandwidth (using > >pathchar) and qualifying the coverage areas of both locations using a laptop, > >fugawai and a Garmin12XL (hence my need to know if any of the Aironet PCMCIA > >offerings work with the IC2200 cards). > > The PCI, ISA, PCMCIA and AP all interoperate. In fact, all of Aironet's > 802.11 products interoperate with each other. (The PCMCIA is $495 for the > 2Mbps and $595 for the 11Mbps). > > >I'm kind of new to this whole thing, but I think the under lying plan is > >solid. It's sort of a small VC experiment for a local ISP. I am also > >interested in how Aironet equipment in a coverage area is "authorized" to use > >a particular leaf node at the layer 2 level (ethernet MAC address > equivalent), > >but I think I've got a pretty good idea how to authenticate using layer 3 > >using routing and/or DHCP. Density is an issue, so if you have any > >information about how many leaf > > I think you are asking how many of these can be installed in a network? If > so, you can install up to the same number as you would a standard Ethernet > NIC, as these are the same, but with a radio addition. For radio > interference, don't be concerned until you have over 50 clients (ISA's, > PCIs or PCMCIA's) operating SIMULTANEOUSLY in the same area. This will > cause a bit of a slow down on the network for two reasons: the system is a > shared environment, and the radios will start to interfere with each other > due to frequency overload in an area. > > >There isn't any legacy equipment involved (other than what I might buy off > the > >used market) and there are currently no interoperability requirements (it > >would be nice if Aironet's PCMCIA equipment worked with the IC2200 card). > > >All distances are under 8 km at the moment. The biggest worry that I have is > >non-line of sight and multi-path issues (and lightening and signal > >interference... there's a boatload of licensed telecom microwave towers > >scattered all over the area). If I start off with two cards/antennas, my > >liability, if this experiment fails is limited. If the test succeeds, I'll > >need two more cards/antennas to get the business plan rolling. ...and after > >that, I'll need inexpensive access points that drop out to ethernet. > > Your distances seem fine, but plan to use the larger antennas for best > results. You CAN start with the Peer to Peer setup, but will have to go to > the Access Point for multiple system access. > > We will NOT interfere with, nor BE interfered with by licensed frequencies, > unless you are installed within a few feet of the licensed antennas on the > same poles. > > Let me know if you want to try this stuff out. I have product in stock. > > Look forward to hearing from you soon. > > Jim Bradfield, Jr. > NAS > jbjrnas@mindspring.com > > > > From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Sun Apr 4 14:23:19 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA29159 for <greg@rage.net>; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 14:23:13 -0700 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.7.1/8.7.1) id OAA03054; Sun, 4 Apr 1999 14:25:25 -0700 (PDT) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199904042125.OAA03054@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: Link, etc. To: mtaht@picketwyre.com, greg@rage.net Date: Sun, 04 Apr 1999 14:25:25 PDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2] Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2117 Mike/Greg The other day when I evicted the CPUs from my bedroom, I opened the cases to discover what excellent air cleaners they had become. All the dirt out of the air had been sucked into the CPU and retained. Given pinion's record uptime - it might be a good time to think about PM'ing it before parts get hot from being dirt insulated (something I believe may have contributed to the failure of the last router). Also - met with my friend chris about the b/w from abovenet - he now has a T1 from an in his house in cupertino - an easy microwave shot from my place. Now the bad news. a.n has upped the pricing - he's paying $10.40/GB/mo from them (we're like 2.50/GB/mo from pbi). That really sucks. They also have all sorts of usage penalites that get pretty extreme. I put a meter on my uh.. customer.. that's housing his 'net business here at my place - his b/w usage has gone up dramatically since he moved in. This should result in some more $ comming in - we might even want to investigate a PBI leased line down the road depending on how much he forks over. I'll keep you informed here as things develop. I may need some scripting assistance in metering his usage! The 384KB/384KB line we have from PBI is now "grandfathered" - we can keep it- but we can't get another one. The new version is a 1.5/128 that would be unattractive, or a 1.5-6.0M/384K thats $328/mo. - about 90/mo more than what we have now. Also - there's no going back to our existing line once we leave it. Have you seen any other good DSL deals out there? The one nice thing about PBI is that they are unmetered - makes our life alot easier! EFB From mtaht@picketwyre.com Mon Apr 5 10:20:33 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from picketwyre.com (mtaht@tick.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.168]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA08905; Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:20:32 -0700 Sender: mtaht@rage.net Message-ID: <3708A929.BED4C56F@picketwyre.com> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 12:14:33 +0000 From: Michael Taht <mtaht@picketwyre.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.0-final i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wireless@rage.net, staht@ibm.net Subject: finally Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2127 the arlan driver is in the 2.2.5acX release of linux... linux-router.org says version 3.0 of LRP should be out by the end of april From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Mon Jun 7 06:10:26 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA23492 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 06:10:25 -0700 Received: (from root@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.7.1/8.7.1) id GAA14655; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 06:22:02 -0700 (PDT) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199906071322.GAA14655@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: Re: ADSL bandwidth problems? To: greg@rage.net Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 6:22:02 PDT Cc: hummer@www.hmmwv.net In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990607013246.16822B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net>; from "Greg Retkowski" at Jun 7, 99 1:37 am X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2] Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1084 > > I've noticed packet loss and latency over our ADSL; over the weekend its > gotten much worse. Any thoughs? > > also, traceroute reports our initial PacBell hop as 63.192.128.1, I don't > remember it being that before. > > I figured perhaps usage, but at 1:30 AM?? > > --- 209.232.137.221 ping statistics --- > 25 packets transmitted, 22 packets received, 12% packet loss > round-trip min/avg/max = 31.6/342.5/981.3 ms > > -- Greg > > One other possibility here - my renters are quite active at 1AM on the net - it may have been them. They are 100% routed through the second lan on pinion. Is there any program on linux that would give you the b/w utilizaion instantaneously to check and see how much they are using? Something like: # bwutil lan0: .384MB/s in .002 MB/s out lan1: .002MB/s in .384 MB/s out # It would be nice to be able to see how much they are running through there and determine if throttling is necessary. Perhaps another option is to zero the counters one day and read it the next day to see the daily usage. A detailed report by IP would be the best - my tennant at .234 does alot of MP3 d/ls and may be running them in the 1AM timeframe to avoid pissing off interactive use. My other tennant at .232 is mostly a point-click-surf type with no AV support. EFB From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Mon Jun 7 09:46:34 1999 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:46:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: hummer@hmmwv.net cc: hummer@www.hmmwv.net Subject: Re: ADSL bandwidth problems? In-Reply-To: <199906071322.GAA14655@www.hmmwv.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990607093632.21330C-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 39 On Mon, 7 Jun 1999 hummer@hmmwv.net wrote: > One other possibility here - my renters are quite active at 1AM on the > net - it may have been them. They are 100% routed through the second lan > on pinion. Its been pretty bad at all hours. I've been up 34 of the last 36 hours (due to a bit of a fuckup at work) on the net that whole time and its been bad for the entirety of it. I also just dropped and put back up the renter's interface while ping/packetloss was bad and it had no effect. > > Is there any program on linux that would give you the b/w utilizaion > instantaneously to check and see how much they are using? Something > like: > > # bwutil > lan0: .384MB/s in .002 MB/s out > lan1: .002MB/s in .384 MB/s out I'm fixing MRTG to track utilization on pinion again, which may provide further information.. It'll provide time/utilization graphs. --Greg From owner-netops@rage.net Mon Jun 7 10:10:26 1999 Return-Path: <owner-netops@rage.net> Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26463 for netops-people; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:10:26 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: screamingslave.rage.net: majordomo set sender to owner-netops@rage.net using -f Received: (from root@localhost) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id KAA26407 for netops; Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:10:06 -0700 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:10:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199906071710.KAA26407@rage.net> From: root@rage.net (Cron Daemon) To: netops@rage.net Subject: Cron <netops@screamingslave> mrtg public_html/mrtg/mrtg.cfg X-Cron-Env: <SHELL=/bin/sh> X-Cron-Env: <HOME=/home/netops> X-Cron-Env: <PATH=/usr/bin:/bin> X-Cron-Env: <LOGNAME=netops> Sender: owner-netops@rage.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netops@rage.net Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1099 SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "5:public@www.hmmwv.net". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "6:public@www.hmmwv.net". I tried multiple times! /usr/local/staff/bin/mailstats: Unable to save stats to /tmp/mailstat.old at /usr/local/staff/bin/mailstats line 31. /usr/local/staff/bin/httpdstats: Unable to save stats to /tmp/httpdstat.old at /usr/local/staff/bin/httpdstats line 31. SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "2:public@pinion". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "3:public@pinion". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "4:public@pinion". I tried multiple times! /usr/local/staff/bin/loadavg: Unable to save stats to /tmp/loadavg.old at /usr/local/staff/bin/loadavg line 31. Rateup ERROR: /usr/bin//rateup found that www.hmmwv.net.1's log file time of 928775407 was greater than now (928775406) ERROR: Let's not do the time warp, again. Logfile unchanged. /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup Error: Can't open www.hmmwv.net.1-day.gif for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 0 with Exit Value 1 when doing router 'www.hmmwv.net.1' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write www.hmmwv.net.1.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup ERROR: /usr/bin//rateup found that www.hmmwv.net.2's log file time of 928775407 was greater than now (928775406) ERROR: Let's not do the time warp, again. Logfile unchanged. /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup Error: Can't open www.hmmwv.net.2-day.gif for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 0 with Exit Value 1 when doing router 'www.hmmwv.net.2' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write www.hmmwv.net.2.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup ERROR: /usr/bin//rateup found that www.hmmwv.net.3's log file time of 928775407 was greater than now (928775406) ERROR: Let's not do the time warp, again. Logfile unchanged. /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup Error: Can't open www.hmmwv.net.3-day.gif for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 0 with Exit Value 1 when doing router 'www.hmmwv.net.3' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write www.hmmwv.net.3.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup ERROR: /usr/bin//rateup found that screamingslave.mail's log file time of 928775410 was greater than now (928775409) ERROR: Let's not do the time warp, again. Logfile unchanged. /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup Error: Can't open screamingslave.mail-day.gif for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 0 with Exit Value 1 when doing router 'screamingslave.mail' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write screamingslave.mail.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open screamingslave.http.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router 'screamingslave.http' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write screamingslave.http.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open screamingslave.cpu.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router 'screamingslave.cpu' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write screamingslave.cpu.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup ERROR: /usr/bin//rateup found that screamingslave.mem's log file time of 928775409 was greater than now (928775408) ERROR: Let's not do the time warp, again. Logfile unchanged. /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup Error: Can't open screamingslave.mem-day.gif for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 0 with Exit Value 1 when doing router 'screamingslave.mem' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write screamingslave.mem.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.1 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.1 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.1.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.1' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.1.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.2 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.2 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.2.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.2' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.2.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.3 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.3 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.3.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.3' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.3.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.4 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.4 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.4.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.4' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.4.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.5 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.5 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.5.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.5' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.5.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.6 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.6 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.6.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.6' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.6.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.7 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.7 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.7.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.7' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.7.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.8 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.8 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.8.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.8' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.8.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.9 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.9 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.9.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.9' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.9.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.10 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.10 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.10.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.10' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.10.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.11 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.11 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.11.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.11' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.11.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.12 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.12 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.12.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.12' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.12.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.13 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.13 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.13.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.13' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.13.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.14 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.14 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.14.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.14' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.14.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.15 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.15 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.15.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.15' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.15.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.16 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.16 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.16.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.16' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.16.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.17 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.17 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.17.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.17' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.17.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.18 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.18 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.18.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.18' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.18.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.19 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.19 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.19.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.19' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.19.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.20 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.20 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.20.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.20' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.20.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup could not read the primary log file for 207.104.7.129.21 Rateup WARNING: /usr/bin//rateup The backup log file for 207.104.7.129.21 was invalid as well /usr/bin//rateup: Permission denied Rateup ERROR: Can't open 207.104.7.129.21.tmp for write PROBLEM: rateup died from Signal 127 with Exit Value 16777215 when doing router '207.104.7.129.21' If this happens all the time, you should probably investigate the cause. :-) Can not write 207.104.7.129.21.html at /usr/bin/mrtg line 1040. From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Fri Jun 11 11:18:17 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA31338 for <greg@rage.net>; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:18:07 -0700 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.7.1/8.7.1) id LAA20261; Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:30:01 -0700 (PDT) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199906111830.LAA20261@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: microwave link health? To: mtaht@picketwyre.com, greg@rage.net Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:30:00 PDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2] Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1202 Mike/Greg I was reviewing some of the stats and noticed that the http services from rage.net down the microwave link seemed kinda slow - I also see you're not getting much more than 3.6 kB/s through the link which seems low - have you looked at the microwave statistics to see if there's a problem on the link (alignment, etc)? Also - pinion has more dust in it now than my shop-vac. I'm planning on taking www down later this weekend to add a lancard and clean it up I don't want to clean pinion because the act of removing the dust tends to cause major ESD problems (rapidly moving dust creates major static, and given the amount of dust in pinion, the corresponding static would be undesirable) - I've crashed running machines by blowing or vacuuming dust out of them. Let me know if you want to come by and do some PM work on this end - it might not be a bad idea to look in on "last" to see how it's doing up in the attic - especially as summertime temps arrive. EFB From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Fri Jun 11 12:09:35 1999 -0700 Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 12:09:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: hummer@hmmwv.net Subject: Re: microwave link health? In-Reply-To: <199906111830.LAA20261@www.hmmwv.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990611114921.21206F-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 81 On Fri, 11 Jun 1999 hummer@hmmwv.net wrote: > I was reviewing some of the stats and noticed that the http services > from rage.net down the microwave link seemed kinda slow - I also see > you're not getting much more than 3.6 kB/s through the link which seems > low - have you looked at the microwave statistics to see if there's > a problem on the link (alignment, etc)? pinion reports bytes (instead of bits) through SNMP. Donno why. You can compare the hmmwvswitch graphs with the pinion graphs and see that pinion is mis-reporting (the peaks correspond). I eyeballed the antenna just to be sure, looks good. www.rage.net being slow may be more of a machine issue. Its a P166 doing much more than it should be. The other thing is that the graphs seem to come up slowly for me (if this is what you are reffering to). In my case its gif rendering, on my slow box. > Let me know if you want to come by and do some PM work on this end - it > might not be a bad idea to look in on "last" to see how it's doing up > in the attic - especially as summertime temps arrive. Yeah, its getting time to see what a year of attic livin has done to the machines. I'm not sure yet when we'll be looking at them, but it'll be soon. -- Greg "And even at this late date -- 30 years after a sun-bronzed Al Gore, driving a team of plow horses, dug a furrow for the first T1 line -- some of the loopiest insinuations being thrown about in the aftermath concerned that multibillion-dollar menace, the Internet." James Poniewozik, Salon.com From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Mon Jun 21 21:32:50 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA08084 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:32:50 -0700 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.7.1/8.7.1) id VAA06578; Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:45:22 -0700 (PDT) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199906220445.VAA06578@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: Pinion under attack? To: mtaht@picketwyre.com, greg@rage.net Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 21:45:22 PDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2] Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1542 Greg/Mike Check the mrtg stats for pinion - 10AM today there was a large, long period of activity in/out of the router - but not out the guestnet nor microwave. From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Fri Jun 25 20:54:23 1999 -0700 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 20:54:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: hummer@hmmwv.net Subject: DNS Change Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990625205335.216B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 197 Hi Everett, Can you change reverse dns for 207.104.7.130 to 'pinion.rage.net'? Thanks. -- Greg From davidc@custom-metalcraft.com Tue Jun 29 14:56:48 1999 Return-Path: <davidc@custom-metalcraft.com> Received: from dialnet.net (mail.dialnet.net [206.65.248.7]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA31110 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:56:44 -0700 From: davidc@custom-metalcraft.com Received: from cmisrv2.mail.custom-metalcraft.com (mail.custom-metalcraft.com [206.65.249.123]) by dialnet.net (8.8.5/8.8.4) with ESMTP id QAA14867; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:56:33 -0500 Received: by CMISRV2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <NV96GBRR>; Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:56:55 -0500 Message-ID: <A041821C1312D211AA0700C0F030EB69024C@CMISRV2> To: mtaht@picketwyre.com, greg@rage.net Subject: Wireless Router Howto Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 16:56:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1663 I have been reading your sight with the intentions of doing much the same and must say it has been very helpful. I am having trouble finding the Aironet IC2200 cards though. I was wondering if maybe you had heard of any other card that would work that is readily available. Thanks, David Cowan From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Fri Jul 2 00:30:35 1999 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 00:30:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Reply-To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: wireless@rage.net Subject: Wireless-Howto web stuff. Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990701233341.15196A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 235 I was going through my website refferer logs today and discovered something interesting. On an altavista search using only the term 'router', we're hit 18. With the search terms 'wireless' and 'router' we're 3 and 4, with 1 and 2 being a russian company that doesn't even have an english page. We contine to be every other hit down through 20. Some of our more popular referers are: http://www.linuxtelephony.org/wireless.htm http://www-uk.hpl.hp.com/people/jt/Linux/Wireless.html Various searches on AltaVista and other search engines. Strangely enough our house tour gets alot of hits, /tour/rack_audio.html is one of the more popular. --Greg PS: can we get pinion.rage.net's reverse DNS fixed? Thanks. From MY@ydi.com Wed Jul 7 07:09:14 1999 Return-Path: <MY@ydi.com> Received: from dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.6]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA16231 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 07:09:13 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA11793; Wed, 7 Jul 1999 09:08:29 -0500 (CDT) Received: from client-151-200-121-224.bellatlantic.net(151.200.121.224) by dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma011705; Wed Jul 7 09:07:37 1999 Message-Id: <4.1.19990707094803.009a3cd0@ydi.com> X-Sender: MY@ydi.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 10:01:51 -0400 To: Michael Taht <mtaht@picketwyre.com>, Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> From: Michael Young <MY@ydi.com> Subject: Wireless LINUX Routers Cc: rf@ydi.com, Naji@ydi.com, Peter Teuben <teuben@astro.umd.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by rage.net id HAA16231 Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 1750 Gentleman, Good job on your "Wireless Router Howto" page! You mention that there is no one place to get all the hardware you need. Well there is now! We offer a whole range of high speed Wireless LAN solutions. These include Wireless LAN cards, antennas, pole mounted amplifiers, cables - the works! Ranges over 25 miles are possible. Visit our Web Site at www.ydi.com If you want to chat give me a call Toll Free at 888-297-9090 . Also, please include us in you list of vendors on that page. Thanks! Regards, Michael F. Young President Young Design, Inc 308 Hillwood Ave. Falls Church, VA� 22046 http://www.ydi.com (TEL) 703-237-9090 (FAX) 703-237-9092 From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Wed Jul 7 10:53:30 1999 -0700 Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 10:53:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Michael Young <MY@ydi.com> cc: Michael Taht <mtaht@picketwyre.com>, rf@ydi.com, Naji@ydi.com, Peter Teuben <teuben@astro.umd.edu> Subject: Re: Wireless LINUX Routers In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990707094803.009a3cd0@ydi.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990707102541.24817B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 262 Hi Michael, I'm glad our Howto has been useful to so many people! I've looked over your page and you do offer a great many products. Your prices look very good also.=20 On the transmit power of the WL2400, you've got 50M, I assume this is mW? Thats kinda neet that there's a wlanctl program to control all the parameters, the arlan cards are controlled by passing parameters at module load time. I take it wlanctl can change things on the fly? Thats great. We have not played with your hardware yet and we can't really write it up into the wireless router howto untill we have. If you'd like we can do some testing with it and document the results; we would need a loaner pair of cards, cables, and antennas to do this. We would of course contribute all documentation and software patches back to the community under their existing licenses (MPL or GPL).=20 -- Greg On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Michael Young wrote: > Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 10:01:51 -0400 > From: Michael Young <MY@ydi.com> > To: Michael Taht <mtaht@picketwyre.com>, Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> > Cc: rf@ydi.com, Naji@ydi.com, Peter Teuben <teuben@astro.umd.edu> > Subject: Wireless LINUX Routers >=20 > Gentleman, >=20 > Good job on your "Wireless Router Howto" page! You mention that there is > no one place to get all the hardware you need. Well there is now! We > offer a whole range of high speed Wireless LAN solutions. These include > Wireless LAN cards, antennas, pole mounted amplifiers, cables - the works= ! > Ranges over 25 miles are possible. > =20 > Visit our Web Site at www.ydi.com=20 >=20 > If you want to chat give me a call Toll Free at 888-297-9090 . >=20 > Also, please include us in you list of vendors on that page. Thanks! >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Michael F. Young > President >=20 > Young Design, Inc > 308 Hillwood Ave. > Falls Church, VA=A0 22046 >=20 > http://www.ydi.com >=20 > (TEL) 703-237-9090 > (FAX) 703-237-9092 >=20 From root@www.hmmwv.net Tue Jul 20 23:06:50 1999 Return-Path: <root@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25127 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:06:50 -0700 From: root@www.hmmwv.net Received: (from root@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.7.1/8.7.1) id XAA18630 for greg@rage.net; Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:21:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907210621.XAA18630@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: dns change done To: greg@rage.net Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 23:21:28 PDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2] Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3624 Greg - sorry it took so damn long to get to the dns - been swamped at my new job at work- pinion2.hmmwv.net is now pinion.rage.net. EFB From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Sun Jul 25 18:36:48 1999 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:36:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Reply-To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: linux@ssc.com Subject: Story for Linux Journal Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990725182600.22064B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 358 Hello, Hopefully this will be directed to the right person. I am interested in contributing content to your Linux Journal publication. I live in the Santa Cruz mountains, just south of Silicon Valley proper. Unfortunately up in the mountains it's hard to get bandwidth, so we had to improvise. We threw together a combination of used hardware and marginally supported wireless equipment to build ourselves a pair of wireless routers so we could take advantage of the bandwidth in the valley below. Six months ago we wrote the 'Wireless Router Howto', a document designed to show users of the Linux Operating system how to build their own wireless T1 devices using our favorite operating system. Anyway.. I'd like to write a story on our wireless adventure for a print publication, such as Linux Journal. I would like to know if you would be interested in publishing such a story. You can find further information, including the wireless howto at http://www.rage.net/wireless/ Thanks for your time. -- Greg From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Sun Jul 25 18:45:33 1999 -0700 Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 18:45:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: linux-howto@metalab.unc.edu Subject: Contributing HOWTO's (?) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990725184336.23153B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 360 Hello, I am a co author of the 'Wireless Router Howto' and would like to know how to contribute my Howto to the Linux Documentation Project. My howto and a link to the SGML version (in the FTP Area) are found at http://www.rage.net/wireless/ Thanks for any information you can provide. -- Greg From ljeditor@ssc.com Mon Jul 26 09:45:32 1999 Return-Path: <ljeditor@ssc.com> Received: from dilbert.ssc.com (passenger.ssc.com [216.39.159.17]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA00405 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:45:31 -0700 Received: from parsley.ssc.com [192.168.1.11] (mail) by dilbert.ssc.com with esmtp (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 118nse-0007dS-00; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:45:36 -0700 Received: from ljeditor by parsley.ssc.com with local (Exim 2.05 #1 (Debian)) id 118nsd-0001LR-00; Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:45:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Story for Linux Journal In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990725182600.22064B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> from Greg Retkowski at "Jul 25, 99 06:36:47 pm" To: greg@rage.net Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:45:35 -0700 (PDT) Organization: Specialized Systems Consultants, Inc. (SSC) / Linux Journal Reply-to: ljeditor@ssc.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL39 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <E118nsd-0001LR-00@parsley.ssc.com> From: Linux Journal Editor <ljeditor@ssc.com> Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3793 > Hello, > Hopefully this will be directed to the right person. I am interested in > contributing content to your Linux Journal publication. > > I live in the Santa Cruz mountains, just south of Silicon Valley proper. > Unfortunately up in the mountains it's hard to get bandwidth, so we had to > improvise. We threw together a combination of used hardware and marginally > supported wireless equipment to build ourselves a pair of wireless routers > so we could take advantage of the bandwidth in the valley below. > > Six months ago we wrote the 'Wireless Router Howto', a document > designed to show users of the Linux Operating system how to build their > own wireless T1 devices using our favorite operating system. > > Anyway.. I'd like to write a story on our wireless adventure for a print > publication, such as Linux Journal. I would like to know if you would be > interested in publishing such a story. You can find further information, > including the wireless howto at http://www.rage.net/wireless/ Hello, We are interested in your article on building a wireless router for publication in Linux Journal. Below is an Author's Guide, which lists some more precise guidelines for magazine article submissions. Please let me know if you have any questions regarding its contents. I will need your mailing address (street or PO box) for our author records, along with an anticipated date of completion for your article. As soon as I receive this information, I'll set up our records. It usually takes three months or more for publication, unless we have already chosen an issue for your article. Would you allow us to use it in the on-line magazine Linux Gazette if we don't have room for it in Linux Journal? This is usually an option if the article is in our hands for several months, and although it is scheduled for publication, there may not be enough space available in the upcoming issues. Thank you for your interest in writing for Linux Journal. I look forward to hearing your ideas, questions, and comments in the near future. Sincerely, --Ellen Linux Journal Author's Guide Linux Journal publishes articles about the evolution and use of the Linux operating system. It is our hope that we can further the dissemination of Linux by making pertinent information available to a wide audience. Although some of our readers will be highly technical and involved in the development of Linux, many will be newcomers looking for tutorial information that will help them get up to speed with the Linux movement. Additionally, we expect a substantial number of readers will be watching Linux development to see if it has commercial potential--whether for use as an operating system to port their applications to, or a development platform to use in their work. In order to address this dual audience, we plan to offer the following types of articles: * Beginning tutorials, particularly for those from the MS-DOS world * Interviews with prominent members of the Linux community * Technical articles * Interviews exploring the use of Linux in a commercial or... * Other "real world" setting What Makes a Good Article? Good articles usually stem from the experience of the author. If you solved a problem, developed a new program or found a new application for Linux, you probably have the basis for a good article. In order to determine if your topic would be of interest, ask yourself the following questions: * Does my subject have broad appeal to the Linux community? * Is my subject timely? * Does my information have practical value? If the answers are "yes", you have a story worth telling. Send a short article proposal to ljeditor@ssc.com to let us know what your idea is about. It is important that you get the Editor's approval before writing an article to avoid duplication of another author's work. We will get back to you promptly with any suggested changes or revisions. Once agreement on the general nature of the article is reached, you can proceed with confidence that it will be accepted and published after passing through editing. With the exception of articles solicited for specific issues, we guarantee immediate publication. Our production time is about two months, so there will be a minimum of two months from the time an article has passed through editing to the time it is printed. Due to various considerations, three months ia more typical. There is a lot of competition for the space in Linux Journal, so please be patient with us. What Form Should The Article Be Submitted In? The article will be professionally edited. We may modify headlines and sub-heads, tighten and polish the writing, or rearrange sections to improve its organization and clarity. In order to facilitate editing, it is best if the article is submitted in an unformatted form. We currently prefer plain ASCII text in tar file format. Special information can be included within [square brackets] as needed. Put only one space after sentences, put a blank line between paragraphs, and don't indent paragraphs. This is the format we edit our articles in, so if you submit it in a different format, be prepared to get revisions back in this format. The following conventions should be used where necessary: <B> toggle bold: the word <B>bold<B> is in bold type. <I> toggle italic: the word <I>italic<I> is in italic type. <+> toggle superscript <-> toggle subscript The rest of the "tags" are dealt with by hand, not automatically, which is why they are enclosed in [square brackets] instead of <angle brackets>. [cw] following text is unfilled in a constant width font [ecw] end of constant width, unfilled text [list] indicates beginning of a (numbered) list [dot] bulleted item in a list [endlist] end of list [table] beginning of a table [endtable] end of table The < character needs to be "escaped" so that the filter used by our desktop publishing software doesn't eat it up. To get "<"; use "<\<>". We will do this for you if you prefer. In general, you can just submit standard ASCII text to us, and we will put it in this format for you; this reference is for the times when you don't want to leave things up to us. If you prefer, we can also send you additional information on the tags we use. Feel free to include any other instructions for the editors within [square brackets]. If the material you are writing is highly technical or requires special formatting, contact the editor to determine a format that will meet your needs. Submitting Figures, Tables and Photographs Please submit tables, figures, and photographs in separate files from your text and from each other. We would also like a good photograph of our authors. We prefer a good head-and-shoulder shot. Line Art: All art that is black and white (with no gray) should have a minimum of 600dpi and an ideal of 1200dpi. Line art must be in EPS or TIFF format. Color Graphics/Type: Anything with color in it should have a minimum of 200dpi and an ideal of 266dpi. The only exception to this is screen shots which are usually halved in size, bringing their resolution up. Screen shots can be 72-96dpi. Color graphics and type can be in JPG or GIF format. Photographs: Photographs should have a minimum of 266-300dpi. These numbers assume the graphic/photo is the correct size for use in the magazine. Author photos should be 1 x 1.5'' or larger. Photographs must be in EPS or TIFF format. File Formats: The only two recommended file formats for printing are EPS and TIFF. These are the types of files we will accept for use in the magazine. If we receive other formats, they cannot be printed with the article. Some Exceptions: If you are dealing with a "natural" bitmap graphic (images such as scanned photographs that contain subtle, natural transitions between colors), use JPG. If the graphic in question contains primarily vector artwork or is "synthetic" in nature (contain large areas of flat color or sharp, artificial transitions between colors--screen captures and graphics that started out as vector images are good examples), use GIF. If you have any doubt of meeting any of the above requirements, please send real photographs. Each article should end with a two- or three-sentence biographical statement. "Joe Author has been a Unix systems confrobulator for 10 years, and has written free software in ML for the last 3 years. He keeps ducks and freshwater shrimp for a hobby, and welcomes your comments sent to joe@ducksnshrimp.org, or by snail mail C/O Linux Journal." The bio may be serious or humorous, although it is usually best to write it in a style similar to that of the rest of the article. How Long Should My Article Be? The best answer is "as long as is needed". If the ideas can be expressed in a short article, fine. If an extremely long article is required to cover the subject and we feel the article is of sufficient interest to our readers, we will run it. In some cases, we may find it necessary to serialize the article. Writing Style * Pick a topic you care about. * Be conversational. Directly address the reader. Use imperatives. Use active verbs. Write as though you were chatting with an intelligent friend who may not be familiar with the specifics of what you are covering. * Never talk down to the reader. * Use short sentences. It helps. * Be careful with your humor, particularly sarcasm and irony. Printed matter has the same limitations as electronic mail. Intentions are easily misread and can be offensive. Many readers have English as their second language and are not immersed in American culture and topical matters. They will not, in general, understand puns based on Madonna, Star Trek, or Windows NT. This is not to say you must be dull and uninteresting--just to be careful. * If you realize you can't make a deadline, let your editor know as soon as possible. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marjorie L. Richardson | Specialized Systems Consultants Editor in Chief, Linux Journal | P.O. Box 85867 Ellen Dahl, Associate Editor | Seattle, WA 98145-1867 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mtaht@picketwyre.com Sun Aug 1 12:26:24 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA17166 for <greg@rage.net>; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 12:26:24 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 12:26:23 -0700 (PDT) From: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> X-Sender: mtaht@screamingslave.rage.net To: greg@rage.net Subject: need help and support (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990801122608.17140A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3912 wow. Indonesia. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 6:04:12 GMT From: mko@mail.pekanbaru.indo.net.id To: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: need help and support Dear Sir, I have read about your successful project on Wireless Router and interested, if possible to be implemented at my cafe. I have just started an internet cafe business in Pekanbaru, Indonesia and are looking for the best alternative to improve my internet speed. My only problem is how to connect my ISP which is about 2 - 3 miles away from my cafe by using antenna. Kindly advice me on this matter, what are the detail hardware requirements and the estimated prices of each component. Last of all, if possible, i would also like to ask for a copy of your LRP ( complete set ) sent to my email at albert@address.com Thanks for the favour. I am looking forward to receiving your reply soon. Best Regards, Albert MKO Internet Cafe Jl.Moh.Yamin No.23 Pekanbaru - Riau Indonesia This message sent using EMUmail. http://EmuMail.com From mtaht@picketwyre.com Wed Aug 4 08:26:15 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from picketwyre.com (godzilla.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.188]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA02203; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:24:20 -0700 Message-ID: <37A83682.9F682D8D@picketwyre.com> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:48:02 -0400 From: Michael Taht <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Organization: A Babe In Netland X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mko@mail.pekanbaru.indo.net.id, wireless@rage.net Subject: Re: need help and support References: <199908010604.NAA11966@mail.pekanbaru.indo.net.id> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3953 Thank you for your note. Going wireless would be a big boon for your cafe' - it would be a big improvement over modem, I'm sure. I helped build the first cybercafe in south florida (www.cybernation.net). The most current floppies are available for ftp download from the faq. In terms of hardware costs, you are looking at about 1000 US dollars for each card and antenna for the US model. The PC required is at bare minimum, a 486-75 with 16MB of ram, you can readily buy machines of this caliber off of www.onsale.com. I specified "US" model because I don't know what parts of the radio spectrum are legal in indonesia. Yer best bet is to contact airolan directly. If you need physical help I can have my passport ready in a few weeks. :) mko@mail.pekanbaru.indo.net.id wrote: > > Dear Sir, > > I have read about your successful project on Wireless Router and interested, > if possible to be implemented at my cafe. > > I have just started an internet cafe business in Pekanbaru, Indonesia and are > looking for the best alternative to improve my internet speed. My only problem > is how to connect my ISP which is about 2 - 3 miles away from my cafe by using > antenna. > > Kindly advice me on this matter, what are the detail hardware requirements and > the estimated prices of each component. > > Last of all, if possible, i would also like to ask for a copy of your LRP > ( complete set ) sent to my email at albert@address.com > > Thanks for the favour. I am looking forward to receiving your reply soon. > > Best Regards, > > Albert > MKO Internet Cafe > Jl.Moh.Yamin No.23 > Pekanbaru - Riau > Indonesia > > This message sent using EMUmail. http://EmuMail.com From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Thu Aug 5 20:16:00 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (hummer@www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27584; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:15:58 -0700 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id UAA10065; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:31:25 -0700 (PDT) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199908060331.UAA10065@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: What happened 0500-0900 this AM? To: wireless@rage.net, mtaht@picketwyre.com, greg@rage.net Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 20:31:24 PDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] Status: RO X-Status: A X-Keywords: X-UID: 3990 Folks - Look at the routing graphs - from 0500 to 0900, it would appear as though pinion was being flood pinged - there was a solid block of 4 hours of traffic, at 6KB/s for that time period. According to pinion's routes - that traffic didn't go up the microwave or out the guest ethernet, it just went back to the wan port. This is the second time I've noticed such activity - I'd like for someone who manages pinion to review the system logs from today and see what was happening there. If the problem is happening from a particular IP, I can block it at the router. Please get back to me ASAP on this. EFB From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Fri Aug 6 00:22:37 1999 -0700 Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 00:22:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: hummer@hmmwv.net cc: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: Re: What happened 0500-0900 this AM? In-Reply-To: <199908060331.UAA10065@www.hmmwv.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990806001512.30238A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 434 On Thu, 5 Aug 1999 hummer@hmmwv.net wrote: > Look at the routing graphs - from 0500 to 0900, it would appear as > though pinion was being flood pinged - there was a solid block of 4 > hours of traffic, at 6KB/s for that time period. According to pinion's > routes - that traffic didn't go up the microwave or out the guest ethernet, > it just went back to the wan port. > > This is the second time I've noticed such activity - I'd like for > someone who manages pinion to review the system logs from today and > see what was happening there. If the problem is happening from a > particular IP, I can block it at the router. Mike's brother, who lives on the east coast, is using early mornings on our servers to do some downloading of sound files from newsgroups. Mike has told him he's free to do this between the hours of 4 and 9 our time, when most of us are still sleeping. There is a corresponding increase in traffic on the WAN port, although not as drastic as on the LAN. Shouldn't be anything to worry about. -- Greg From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Mon Aug 16 12:18:43 1999 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:18:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: roomies@rage.net Subject: LJ article review Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990816121659.27579X-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 502 I plan on sending out the LJ wireless article this evening if at all possible (been sitting on it too long now). If you get a chance please review it and send me any revisions via email (text is fine, patch files is better!). Don't edit the original. the URL is http://www.rage.net/~greg/lj-wirelesst1.txt -- Greg From mtaht@picketwyre.com Mon Aug 16 12:45:54 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA12148 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:45:54 -0700 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:45:53 -0700 (PDT) From: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> X-Sender: mtaht@screamingslave.rage.net To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Subject: Re: LJ article review In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990816121659.27579X-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990816124545.11201F-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4336 Also it's not called the arlan 655 anymore. ________ mike Broadcast message from root (ttypa) Sat Jun 5 2:44:08 1999... AAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Tue Sep 7 09:23:49 1999 -0700 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:23:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: mail <jlambert@lambert-comm.net> Subject: Re: LRP and wireless products. In-Reply-To: <001801bef3b0$3784db40$0903010a@ca810win98> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990907091943.29200G-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 571 On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, mail wrote: > I have a project that needs several (a small number, 3 or 4) > point to point or point to multi point RF links. I would like to > use the Linux Router Project and the Airolan cards. Should > I attempt to do this? What is the current state of these drivers? > Do you have any experience with the WaveLan cards for which > I understand there are Linux drivers? Any other RF NICS I > should consider? We've had very few problems with ours, and they have been in service for over a year now. At one point we were offered a few wavelan card loaners to play around with but never quite got the time.. although their performance according to the spec sheet was comparable to the arlan cards. The linux router project software is easy to deal with once you get the hang of it. Hope this information helps, if not drop me another mail and I'll get back to you. Sorry for the delay, you caught me on vacation and I just got back. -- Greg From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Sun Oct 3 11:27:11 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (hummer@www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA02341 for <wireless@rage.net>; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 11:27:10 -0700 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id LAA03321 for wireless@rage.net; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 11:32:01 -0700 (PDT) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199910031832.LAA03321@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: someone's flood-pinging pinion To: wireless@rage.net Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 11:32:00 PDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5898 Greg/Mike - Please look at www.rage.net/~netops/mrtg/pinion - starting around 9AM, there was a flood of trafic that maxed out the DSL and stopped on pinion (didn't go out the microwave or the guestnet ports). I thought at first this was Mike's copy of 6.1 - but pinion sure can't hold that much data in RAM. Let me know what you think - if we have a problem here, I need to go after whoever is doing this from the outside. Everett From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Sun Oct 3 18:22:01 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (hummer@www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA06076 for <wireless@rage.net>; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:21:57 -0700 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id SAA03631 for wireless@rage.net; Sun, 3 Oct 1999 18:26:47 -0700 (PDT) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199910040126.SAA03631@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: STOP PINGING To: wireless@rage.net Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 18:26:47 PDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5906 OK - whoever is responsible for screamingslave - look at the processes and find the ping to 63.68.249.194 that's been running forever (that address comes back to software technology paarks India). Kill it with extreme prejudice. If they haven't replied by now, they're probably down. screamingslave is also sending a "spanning multicast" packet every 1 second that propogates my network here (courtesy of the router) - if you can't kill that, I'll stop multicast traffic on the router to keep it out of my systems. BTW - system name netmon.pbi.net is pinging www routinely to make sure "we're still there" - guess that's the 24 hour monitoring I'm paying for. I've got non-stop pings on every port on the router today - I'm either going to kill them individually or filter ICMP packets - some jackass was sending 4000 byte packets to www earlier. This may be a result of another jackass who made mention of hmmwv.net in ba.internet a few days ago (which is when all the pinging seems to have started). Take a look at the stats on pinion this morning at 0900 - what the hell happened there? That traffic didn't go up the microwave or out the guestnet - looks like someone was flood pinging it. Another reason to filter icmp. Everett From guest@urbanna.net Sun Oct 10 15:28:19 1999 Return-Path: <guest@urbanna.net> Received: from vast.urbanna.net (root@vast.deltaville.net [206.214.228.101]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA03128 for <homeless@rage.net>; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 15:28:12 -0700 Received: from urbanna.net (du004.internal.net [192.168.0.5]) by vast.urbanna.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13435 for <homeless@rage.net>; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 18:25:50 -0400 Message-ID: <37FFAF81.F54645CE@urbanna.net> Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 17:11:30 -0400 From: "guest@urbanna.net" <guest@urbanna.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: homeless@rage.net Subject: Wire the town? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6231 Hello; I have a small ISP in Urbanna Virginia. I feel the rapid approach of Cable ISP's. I can either roll over and play dead while they run me out of business or I can network the town on wireless. The latter is more appealing. What say, could one build the client end of these systems at a price low enough to interest the public? Thanks for the work you did on the wireless project. Nice piece of engineering there. Michael Erskine Simply Computers! P.O. Box 1233 Urbanna, Virginia 23175-1233 From mtaht@picketwyre.com Sun Oct 10 16:25:16 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA03649; Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:25:05 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 16:25:05 -0700 (PDT) From: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> X-Sender: mtaht@screamingslave.rage.net To: "guest@urbanna.net" <guest@urbanna.net> cc: wireless@rage.net Subject: Re: Wire the town? In-Reply-To: <37FFAF81.F54645CE@urbanna.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991010160301.27842E-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6232 One of my friends in the virgin islands is using similar technology to wire the island. They went with higher end wireless routers and have had great success in selling the service. (the phone company is terrible). See www.viaccess.net for more details. I've also done some work on wireless hybrid cable, see www.directnet1.net for the ISP I helped set up. I feel the wireless alternative is an excellent one for areas with high mountains and moderate weather conditions. One good market is small business - someplace that needs bi-directional bandwidth, now. Also, doing connectivity to short lived events and conferences makes sense. One way to drop the costs to the end user is to lease or rent them the wireless box. As for building these boxes cheaply, I figure the cost on building them out of recycled parts has dropped below 1k. Some new technology out using the harris chip is faster, but I haven't got one in to play with to try out the range. The url is around here somewhere... I haven't seen a standalone commercial product that does what we do, but there are plenty that do what we're doing, non-wireless. The cyclades guys were interested in producing a wireless version of their box. We did a lot of research into building a standalone box, basically we feel it can be done, but it would cost 1500 or so/box in low quantities, and only in massive quantities would it drop below 800 or so. With more engineering (an SBC with the wireless interface onboard), the cost could drop below 300, but that would require serious hardware engineering. Possible to drop even below that if we got away from intel and/or 32 bit architecture, I'm disinclined to do the latter, and wish there was a 486 core out there that had all the stuff we needed on it for the former. The embedded cpu from natsemi looks good, but still costs too much. We felt that maybe some of the additional features of linux (firewalling, ip-masqing, web proxy service, an ad filter, etc) would help such a box find a market... but without chasing after major VC money, we decided just to publish our results and wait for someone with check in hand to invest... :/. Our routers have been up for 185 days straight without a glitch. ADSL, at least out here, is ridiculously subsidized - a basic 384/128k line is less than 60 bux a month. Cable is even cheaper (but you only get one ip). While I'm not going to advise you to roll over and play dead, it IS really hard to compete with the biggies like this, especially when they are pricing their services below what it takes to make a reasonable profit. I am admiring the TIVO box as we speak. It would be so nice to take engineering like that and add a wireless interface. :/ So, anyway, I think it's possible to offer T1 bidrectional service across a small town and get a small chunk of the market, perhaps big enough to pay the bills. Doing service to small outlaying towns unlikely to see cable service is another option. So there's a curve of adoption between ADSL/cable which can go in Real Soon Now and wireless which can go in anywhere. There's still room to manuever. Another concept that got batted around was setting up a co-operative, where each site agreed to forward packets around. I felt this was the way to lower costs by enough to outcompete the adsl/cable guys, but didn't leave much room for handling the average user... Hope this helps. Good luck. On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, guest@urbanna.net wrote: > Hello; > > I have a small ISP in Urbanna Virginia. I feel the rapid approach of > Cable ISP's. I can either roll over and play dead while they run me out > of business or I can network the town on wireless. The latter is more > appealing. > > What say, could one build the client end of these systems at a price > low enough to interest the public? > > Thanks for the work you did on the wireless project. Nice piece of > engineering there. > > Michael Erskine > Simply Computers! > P.O. Box 1233 > Urbanna, Virginia > 23175-1233 > From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Wed Oct 13 11:27:25 1999 -0700 Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 11:22:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> X-Sender: greg@localhost.localdomain To: wireless@rage.net Subject: pinion rebooted Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910131102280.737-100000@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 688 Pinion was rebooted somewhere around midnight last night. Any reason why? Also, 207.104.7.130, the linux wireless router, shows up as a cisco microwave router in reverse DNS. Last time I checked it was a beat up intel box running linux. -- Greg From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Tue Oct 19 22:18:43 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (hummer@www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA08462 for <wireless@rage.net>; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:18:41 -0700 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id WAA06213; Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:24:40 -0700 (PDT) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199910200524.WAA06213@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: surge in wireless interest To: wireless@rage.net Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 22:24:39 PDT X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 6524 I was reviewing the http: logs today from apache and noted that there's been a sudden increase in the number of viewings of www.hmmwv.net (which I just put there as a test many months ago - never advertised it on any search engines). Found one of them was redirected from this page - www.cruzio.com/~jeffl/nooze/wireless.htm Lists all the wireless ISPs - check it out! EFB From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Wed Oct 20 21:28:46 1999 -0700 Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 21:28:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Reply-To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: "guest@urbanna.net" <guest@urbanna.net> cc: homeless@rage.net Subject: Re: Wire the town? In-Reply-To: <37FFAF81.F54645CE@urbanna.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991020211431.23173B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2 On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, guest@urbanna.net wrote: > Hello; > > I have a small ISP in Urbanna Virginia. I feel the rapid approach of > Cable ISP's. I can either roll over and play dead while they run me out > of business or I can network the town on wireless. The latter is more > appealing. > What say, could one build the client end of these systems at a price > low enough to interest the public? I've seen cards for ~600, the antennas are around ~250.. Depending on what you spend on the system itself (a 486 or low end P1 will do) your looking at around 1000 a node. Compare this to other technologies, such as ADSL.. our ANT (adsl premisis equipment) was $500. Its half, up front... But with wireless there is $0 initial or recurring infrastructure cost, whereas with other technologies you have to pay to lay the copper then continue to pay on a monthly basis. The extra few bucks in equipment quickly even things out. In the days of 'free PC's with a 3 year ISP contract, and free installation of ADSL and cablemodems et al; perhaps you just rent out the units or sell them at a discout with a guaranteed service contract (1 year or whatever). Now we've got a setup where we use two directional antennas in a point to point configuration at a range of 13 miles, over one of the 'noisier' metro areas around. If I were to ISP this thing I'd use a configuration whereas each 'client' would have a directional antenna, and I would place nodes with omnidirectional antennas in my coverage area. I think with this configuration you are good for at least 10km (6 miles) distance. So if you have a larger coverage area you've got several cells 12 miles from each other. I definately see this in the 'small business' and 'power user' category, same market as ADSL or two-way cablemodem service. > Thanks for the work you did on the wireless project. Nice piece of > engineering there. We all do what we can! -- Greg From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Tue Nov 2 15:32:36 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (hummer@www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14088 for <wireless@rage.net>; Tue, 2 Nov 1999 15:32:34 -0800 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id PAA17793 for wireless@rage.net; Tue, 2 Nov 1999 15:39:37 -0800 (PST) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199911022339.PAA17793@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: bye bye 2.4 GHz To: wireless@rage.net Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 15:39:36 PST X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] X-Keywords: X-UID: 6861 Status: RO X-Status: Metricom Prepares to Deploy Upcoming 128 kbps Mobile Data Network Contracts Deployment Companies for Rapid Local Buildout Los Gatos, California - October 6, 1999 -- Metricom, Inc. (NASDAQ: MCOM), leading provider of mobile data networking and technology, today announced contracts with three companies for the physical deployment of key components for its Ricochet 128 kbps mobile data network. Wireless Facilities, Inc. (WFI), General Dynamics Worldwide Telecommunications Systems, and Whalen & Company will work simultaneously in the initial markets to ensure Ricochet commercial availability in 2000, with the first 12 markets coming online in the Summer. The firms will be responsible for tasks involved in the deployment of local Wired Access Points (WAPs), which are the central points of connection between Ricochet local wireless networks and the local wireline and national Internet backbone networks. "Our number one goal over the next several quarters is executing our network buildout to deliver on the promise of high-speed wireless data service for mobile professionals," said Bob Schellman, Senior Vice President, Network Operations and Services, for Metricom. "Working with high-caliber deployment experts such as WFI, General Dynamics, and Whalen is a key component in our strategy and will help Metricom light up markets on time." WAPs are integral to the Ricochet meshed frequency-hopping network architecture that incorporates micro cell radio transmitters hung on streetlight and utility poles. These intelligent self-configuring "poletop" radios allow users to send and receive data from Ricochet wireless data modems anywhere in coverage areas. Ricochet WAPs collect RF data packets from the poletop radios and convert them for transmission over the local wireline and national Internet backbone networks. The three contractors will provide WAP site acquisition, zoning approval, architectural and engineering management, construction management, and WAP installation services. In addition, Metricom and WFI have entered into an agreement whereby WFI will perform all the Radio Frequency (RF) engineering to guide local installation of poletop radios and WAPs in Metricom's targeted metropolitan areas. Based on Metricom's patented RF technology, these RF "blueprints" comprise the first step in local deployment, which is scheduled to begin in the fourth quarter. From mtaht@picketwyre.com Tue Nov 2 23:13:08 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA19164 for <wireless@rage.net>; Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:13:06 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:13:05 -0800 (PST) From: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> X-Sender: mtaht@screamingslave.rage.net cc: wireless@rage.net Subject: Re: bye bye 2.4 GHz In-Reply-To: <199911022339.PAA17793@www.hmmwv.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991102231132.9261J-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 6862 Status: RO X-Status: It would be nice if there was some sort of legal process where they would have to publish their plans for public review. I have no prob in sharing some of the 2.4 Ghz band (we do have 15 frequency ranges that the arlan cards can use) but I don't know how to participate in this. ________ mike Top 3 reasons to continue using Windows: 1.The idea of using something primarily controlled by typing revolts you. 2.You are an employee of Microsoft. 3.Paperclips turn you on. Especially talking ones. ... from slashdot.org On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 hummer@hmmwv.net wrote: > > Metricom Prepares to Deploy Upcoming 128 kbps Mobile Data Network > Contracts Deployment Companies for Rapid Local Buildout > Los Gatos, California - October 6, 1999 -- Metricom, Inc. (NASDAQ: MCOM), > leading provider of mobile data networking and technology, today announced > contracts with three companies for the physical deployment of key > components for its Ricochet 128 kbps mobile data network. Wireless > Facilities, Inc. (WFI), General Dynamics Worldwide Telecommunications > Systems, and Whalen & Company will work simultaneously in the initial > markets to ensure Ricochet commercial availability in 2000, with the first > 12 markets coming online in the Summer. The firms will be responsible for > tasks involved in the deployment of local Wired Access Points (WAPs), which > are the central points of connection between Ricochet local wireless > networks and the local wireline and national Internet backbone networks. > "Our number one goal over the next several quarters is executing our > network buildout to deliver on the promise of high-speed wireless data > service for mobile professionals," said Bob Schellman, Senior Vice > President, Network Operations and Services, for Metricom. "Working with > high-caliber deployment experts such as WFI, General Dynamics, and Whalen > is a key component in our strategy and will help Metricom light up markets > on time." > WAPs are integral to the Ricochet meshed frequency-hopping network > architecture that incorporates micro cell radio transmitters hung on > streetlight and utility poles. These intelligent self-configuring "poletop" > radios allow users to send and receive data from Ricochet wireless data > modems anywhere in coverage areas. Ricochet WAPs collect RF data packets > from the poletop radios and convert them for transmission over the local > wireline and national Internet backbone networks. The three contractors > will provide WAP site acquisition, zoning approval, architectural and > engineering management, construction management, and WAP installation > services. > In addition, Metricom and WFI have entered into an agreement whereby WFI > will perform all the Radio Frequency (RF) engineering to guide local > installation of poletop radios and WAPs in Metricom's targeted metropolitan > areas. Based on Metricom's patented RF technology, these RF "blueprints" > comprise the first step in local deployment, which is scheduled to begin in > the fourth quarter. > > From guest@urbanna.net Sat Nov 6 15:47:02 1999 Return-Path: <guest@urbanna.net> Received: from vast.urbanna.net (guest@vast.deltaville.net [206.214.228.101]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20556 for <greg@rage.net>; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:46:58 -0800 Received: from localhost (guest@localhost) by vast.urbanna.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23009 for <greg@rage.net>; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:46:52 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:46:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Training account..." <guest@urbanna.net> To: greg@rage.net Subject: Re: Wire the town? (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911061846250.22908-100000@vast.urbanna.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 7070 Status: RO X-Status: Duh... and again I get confused about which account I am using/talking too.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:21:10 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Erskine <osiris@urbanna.net> To: Training account... <guest@urbanna.net> Subject: Re: Wire the town? (fwd) Now I am actually going to read this and pop in my two cents. -m- On Sat, 6 Nov 1999, Training account... wrote: [snip] > One of my friends in the virgin islands is using similar technology to > wire the island. They went with higher end wireless routers and have > had great success in selling the service. (the phone company is terrible). We are rural and on copper, old copper. > See www.viaccess.net for more details. I've also done some work on > wireless hybrid cable, see www.directnet1.net for the ISP I helped set up. > > I feel the wireless alternative is an excellent one for areas with high > mountains and moderate weather conditions. > You might want to look at BreezeNet's products. They are similar, and expensive. > One good market is small business - someplace that needs bi-directional > bandwidth, now. Also, doing connectivity to short lived events and > conferences makes sense. One way to drop the costs to the end user is to > lease or rent them the wireless box. > Excellent thinking. In this case there is the possibility that the business would want the wireless technology because it is MORE secure than a local ISP. This allows them to keep their in-house mail 'in-house'. > As for building these boxes cheaply, I figure the cost on building them > out of recycled parts has dropped below 1k. Some new technology out using > the harris chip is faster, but I haven't got one in to play with to try > out the range. The url is around here somewhere... > I am using the eql driver. One can MUX 8 ppp links on it. Hmmm... BIG BACKBONE. The eql driver uses the 'bank teller' approach to MUXing the packets. Livingston's hardware uses a fifo like arrangement that fills the first pipe first. This means Livingston has to decide when to drop packets on the second pipe and that means keeping pointers in the buffers for high and low water. The end result is it is not as efficient as the linux eql driver. > I haven't seen a standalone commercial product that does what we do, but > there are plenty that do what we're doing, non-wireless. The cyclades guys > were interested in producing a wireless version of their box. > Is the BreezeNet stuff the same thing? > We did a lot of research into building a standalone > box, basically we feel it can be done, but it would cost 1500 or so/box in > low quantities, and only in massive quantities would it drop below 800 or > so. With more engineering (an SBC with the wireless interface onboard), > the cost could drop below 300, but that would require serious > hardware engineering. People who expect to sell a hundred million copies will do serious engineering. What you need is a drop to a MS box... Build that and sell it for $300, you will sell a hundred million. > Possible to drop even below that if we got away from > intel and/or 32 bit architecture, I'm disinclined to do the latter, and > wish there was a 486 core out there that had all the stuff we needed on > it for the former. The embedded cpu from natsemi looks good, but still > costs too much. > Design the pup. Find someone to back you and design the pup. You have already shown the skill, that is your selling point. You say, "I have shown that it can be done, and I know how to get there from here." > We felt that maybe some of the additional features of linux (firewalling, > ip-masqing, web proxy service, an ad filter, etc) would help such a box > find a market... This is your high end market. Your low end market is MS crapola. > but without chasing after major VC money, we decided just > to publish our results and wait for someone with check in hand to > invest... :/. Our routers have been up for 185 days straight without a > glitch. > That will probably do it. Someone will come along but it doesn't hurt to send a couple of E-Mail's to companies like Sun, SGI... Netscape... these folks would dearly love to kill the NT market. The high end boxes are what is needed to kill MS NT servers once and for all. That coupled with the ruling of last week (MS is a monopoly), we are making progress again. > ADSL, at least out here, is ridiculously subsidized - a basic 384/128k > line is less than 60 bux a month. Cable is even cheaper (but you only get > one ip). > Yep, that sucks because the people won't realize the price is going to go up again. > While I'm not going to advise you to roll over and play dead, it IS really > hard to compete with the biggies like this, especially when they are > pricing their services below what it takes to make a reasonable profit. > Yep, web server... stand alone, no dialup accounts, build a shot to my provider. I guess we find the niche where we can survive. > I am admiring the TIVO box as we speak. It would be so nice to take > engineering like that and add a wireless interface. :/ Haven't heard of it. Got link? > > So, anyway, I think it's possible to offer T1 bidrectional service across > a small town and get a small chunk of the market, perhaps big enough to > pay the bills. Doing service to small outlaying towns unlikely to see > cable service is another option. Urbanna, Virginia... Another option you should look at is the educational market. Educational (public schools) every county has little schools scattered all over the place. The recurring cost of a T-1 will sell your stuff outright. Just start local and have them over to see your system. Wear a tie. > > So there's a curve of adoption between ADSL/cable which can go in Real > Soon Now and wireless which can go in anywhere. There's still room to > manuever. > I think so... unless they (big boys) get in there and start making political contributions to get laws passed. Remember what happened when they decided to encrypt the TV sat channels? Cable wanted that real bad. Look at what Ma-Bell has done to 56k modems with legislation... > Another concept that got batted around was setting up a co-operative, > where each site agreed to forward packets around. I felt this was the way > to lower costs by enough to outcompete the adsl/cable guys, but didn't > leave much room for handling the average user... > Think on this one. Each site reroutes packets. You would have to get a good network programmer to write the Microsoft drivers BUT and it would be difficult but IRIDIUM is doing exactly that. Sites talk to near neighbors. Sites tell each other who they can see. Everyone is a switch. > Hope this helps. Good luck. > Yes, sir. I will now take a look at the other message. -m- > On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, guest@urbanna.net wrote: > > > Hello; > > > > I have a small ISP in Urbanna Virginia. I feel the rapid approach of > > Cable ISP's. I can either roll over and play dead while they run me out > > of business or I can network the town on wireless. The latter is more > > appealing. > > > > What say, could one build the client end of these systems at a price > > low enough to interest the public? > > > > Thanks for the work you did on the wireless project. Nice piece of > > engineering there. > > > > Michael Erskine > > Simply Computers! > > P.O. Box 1233 > > Urbanna, Virginia > > 23175-1233 > > > From guest@urbanna.net Sat Nov 6 15:49:11 1999 Return-Path: <guest@urbanna.net> Received: from vast.urbanna.net (guest@vast.deltaville.net [206.214.228.101]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20570 for <greg@rage.net>; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 15:49:07 -0800 Received: from localhost (guest@localhost) by vast.urbanna.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23106 for <greg@rage.net>; Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:49:03 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:49:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Training account..." <guest@urbanna.net> To: greg@rage.net Subject: Re: Wire the town? (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911061848280.20542-100000@vast.urbanna.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 7071 Status: RO X-Status: Hell; I am just going to pop every copy and delete them ... Reply to osiris@urbanna.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 18:21:10 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Erskine <osiris@urbanna.net> To: Training account... <guest@urbanna.net> Subject: Re: Wire the town? (fwd) Now I am actually going to read this and pop in my two cents. -m- On Sat, 6 Nov 1999, Training account... wrote: [snip] > One of my friends in the virgin islands is using similar technology to > wire the island. They went with higher end wireless routers and have > had great success in selling the service. (the phone company is terrible). We are rural and on copper, old copper. > See www.viaccess.net for more details. I've also done some work on > wireless hybrid cable, see www.directnet1.net for the ISP I helped set up. > > I feel the wireless alternative is an excellent one for areas with high > mountains and moderate weather conditions. > You might want to look at BreezeNet's products. They are similar, and expensive. > One good market is small business - someplace that needs bi-directional > bandwidth, now. Also, doing connectivity to short lived events and > conferences makes sense. One way to drop the costs to the end user is to > lease or rent them the wireless box. > Excellent thinking. In this case there is the possibility that the business would want the wireless technology because it is MORE secure than a local ISP. This allows them to keep their in-house mail 'in-house'. > As for building these boxes cheaply, I figure the cost on building them > out of recycled parts has dropped below 1k. Some new technology out using > the harris chip is faster, but I haven't got one in to play with to try > out the range. The url is around here somewhere... > I am using the eql driver. One can MUX 8 ppp links on it. Hmmm... BIG BACKBONE. The eql driver uses the 'bank teller' approach to MUXing the packets. Livingston's hardware uses a fifo like arrangement that fills the first pipe first. This means Livingston has to decide when to drop packets on the second pipe and that means keeping pointers in the buffers for high and low water. The end result is it is not as efficient as the linux eql driver. > I haven't seen a standalone commercial product that does what we do, but > there are plenty that do what we're doing, non-wireless. The cyclades guys > were interested in producing a wireless version of their box. > Is the BreezeNet stuff the same thing? > We did a lot of research into building a standalone > box, basically we feel it can be done, but it would cost 1500 or so/box in > low quantities, and only in massive quantities would it drop below 800 or > so. With more engineering (an SBC with the wireless interface onboard), > the cost could drop below 300, but that would require serious > hardware engineering. People who expect to sell a hundred million copies will do serious engineering. What you need is a drop to a MS box... Build that and sell it for $300, you will sell a hundred million. > Possible to drop even below that if we got away from > intel and/or 32 bit architecture, I'm disinclined to do the latter, and > wish there was a 486 core out there that had all the stuff we needed on > it for the former. The embedded cpu from natsemi looks good, but still > costs too much. > Design the pup. Find someone to back you and design the pup. You have already shown the skill, that is your selling point. You say, "I have shown that it can be done, and I know how to get there from here." > We felt that maybe some of the additional features of linux (firewalling, > ip-masqing, web proxy service, an ad filter, etc) would help such a box > find a market... This is your high end market. Your low end market is MS crapola. > but without chasing after major VC money, we decided just > to publish our results and wait for someone with check in hand to > invest... :/. Our routers have been up for 185 days straight without a > glitch. > That will probably do it. Someone will come along but it doesn't hurt to send a couple of E-Mail's to companies like Sun, SGI... Netscape... these folks would dearly love to kill the NT market. The high end boxes are what is needed to kill MS NT servers once and for all. That coupled with the ruling of last week (MS is a monopoly), we are making progress again. > ADSL, at least out here, is ridiculously subsidized - a basic 384/128k > line is less than 60 bux a month. Cable is even cheaper (but you only get > one ip). > Yep, that sucks because the people won't realize the price is going to go up again. > While I'm not going to advise you to roll over and play dead, it IS really > hard to compete with the biggies like this, especially when they are > pricing their services below what it takes to make a reasonable profit. > Yep, web server... stand alone, no dialup accounts, build a shot to my provider. I guess we find the niche where we can survive. > I am admiring the TIVO box as we speak. It would be so nice to take > engineering like that and add a wireless interface. :/ Haven't heard of it. Got link? > > So, anyway, I think it's possible to offer T1 bidrectional service across > a small town and get a small chunk of the market, perhaps big enough to > pay the bills. Doing service to small outlaying towns unlikely to see > cable service is another option. Urbanna, Virginia... Another option you should look at is the educational market. Educational (public schools) every county has little schools scattered all over the place. The recurring cost of a T-1 will sell your stuff outright. Just start local and have them over to see your system. Wear a tie. > > So there's a curve of adoption between ADSL/cable which can go in Real > Soon Now and wireless which can go in anywhere. There's still room to > manuever. > I think so... unless they (big boys) get in there and start making political contributions to get laws passed. Remember what happened when they decided to encrypt the TV sat channels? Cable wanted that real bad. Look at what Ma-Bell has done to 56k modems with legislation... > Another concept that got batted around was setting up a co-operative, > where each site agreed to forward packets around. I felt this was the way > to lower costs by enough to outcompete the adsl/cable guys, but didn't > leave much room for handling the average user... > Think on this one. Each site reroutes packets. You would have to get a good network programmer to write the Microsoft drivers BUT and it would be difficult but IRIDIUM is doing exactly that. Sites talk to near neighbors. Sites tell each other who they can see. Everyone is a switch. > Hope this helps. Good luck. > Yes, sir. I will now take a look at the other message. -m- > On Sat, 9 Oct 1999, guest@urbanna.net wrote: > > > Hello; > > > > I have a small ISP in Urbanna Virginia. I feel the rapid approach of > > Cable ISP's. I can either roll over and play dead while they run me out > > of business or I can network the town on wireless. The latter is more > > appealing. > > > > What say, could one build the client end of these systems at a price > > low enough to interest the public? > > > > Thanks for the work you did on the wireless project. Nice piece of > > engineering there. > > > > Michael Erskine > > Simply Computers! > > P.O. Box 1233 > > Urbanna, Virginia > > 23175-1233 > > > From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Tue Nov 9 20:31:45 1999 -0800 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:31:45 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: wireless@rage.net Subject: Switch not responding to SNMP queries? Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991109202816.4849B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 78 MRTG isn't able to get data from the switch anymore. doing it manually (via snmpwalk) returns nothing. Any config changes over there? Given enough time I suppose any problem goes away... 207.104.7.130 -> SCcisco-microwave.hmmwv.net I suppose pinion is a cisco now. They just bought aironet. -- Greg ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Return-Path: <owner-netops@rage.net> Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07602 for netops-people; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:25:20 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: screamingslave.rage.net: majordomo set sender to owner-netops@rage.net using -f Received: (from root@localhost) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07581 for netops; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:25:05 -0800 Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:25:05 -0800 Message-Id: <199911100425.UAA07581@screamingslave.rage.net> From: root@screamingslave.rage.net (Cron Daemon) To: netops@screamingslave.rage.net Subject: Cron <netops@screamingslave> mrtg public_html/mrtg/mrtg.cfg X-Cron-Env: <SHELL=/bin/sh> X-Cron-Env: <HOME=/home/netops> X-Cron-Env: <PATH=/usr/bin:/bin> X-Cron-Env: <LOGNAME=netops> Sender: owner-netops@rage.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netops@rage.net SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "10:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "11:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "12:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "1:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "2:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "3:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "4:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "5:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "6:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "7:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "8:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "9:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Tue Nov 9 22:21:46 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (hummer@www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13646 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 22:21:45 -0800 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id WAA24121; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 22:29:19 -0800 (PST) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199911100629.WAA24121@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: Re: Switch not responding to SNMP queries? To: greg@rage.net Date: Tue, 09 Nov 1999 22:29:19 PST Cc: mtaht@picketwyre.com, hummer@www.hmmwv.net In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991109202816.4849B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net>; from "Greg Retkowski" at Nov 9, 99 8:31 pm X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] X-Keywords: X-UID: 7268 Status: RO X-Status: > > MRTG isn't able to get data from the switch anymore. doing it manually > (via snmpwalk) returns nothing. Any config changes over there? Greg - I've had several SNMP packets comming in off the wan targeting the router - it was basically giving away all of our info to anyone who wanted to get it via snmp. There's been a lot of traffic recently comming out of .tw into my DNS and they're showing in the log files of systems that aren't even published. I wish there was an easy way to deny *.tw... You need to specify a "get password community name" in snmp now (or simply community name) - the default is "public" or "" - the new password is "efbhmw", which grants full read access. Can you update mrtg with an snmp community name? > > Given enough time I suppose any problem goes away... > 207.104.7.130 -> SCcisco-microwave.hmmwv.net > I suppose pinion is a cisco now. They just bought aironet. If you can't beat 'em - buy 'em - that's been HP's path all along. It's actually good news for aironet since they'll be around, but probably bad news for their customers since they'll pay cisco prices for airnoet's technology. > > -- Greg > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Return-Path: <owner-netops@rage.net> > Received: (from majordomo@localhost) > by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07602 > for netops-people; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:25:20 -0800 > X-Authentication-Warning: screamingslave.rage.net: majordomo set sender to owner-netops@rage.net using -f > Received: (from root@localhost) > by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07581 > for netops; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:25:05 -0800 > Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:25:05 -0800 > Message-Id: <199911100425.UAA07581@screamingslave.rage.net> > From: root@screamingslave.rage.net (Cron Daemon) > To: netops@screamingslave.rage.net > Subject: Cron <netops@screamingslave> mrtg public_html/mrtg/mrtg.cfg > X-Cron-Env: <SHELL=/bin/sh> > X-Cron-Env: <HOME=/home/netops> > X-Cron-Env: <PATH=/usr/bin:/bin> > X-Cron-Env: <LOGNAME=netops> > Sender: owner-netops@rage.net > Precedence: bulk > Reply-To: netops@rage.net > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "10:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "11:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "12:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "1:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "2:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "3:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "4:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "5:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "6:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "7:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "8:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "9:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > From mtaht@picketwyre.com Wed Nov 10 00:07:41 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15200 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:07:41 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05655; Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:07:07 -0800 Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 00:07:07 -0800 (PST) To: hummer@hmmwv.net cc: greg@rage.net, hummer@hmmwv.net Subject: Re: Switch not responding to SNMP queries? In-Reply-To: <199911100629.WAA24121@www.hmmwv.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911100005260.5653-100000@lugosi.picketwyre.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 7269 Status: RO X-Status: I just got back from playing with one of their bridges. Nice stuff. The 11Mbit bridges are 2300 bux now, the cards are 695, the PCMCIA cards are 395 - all prices list. I envision them shipping a BSD or linux router with all the same technology embedded in it for like 12k or more.... On Tue, 9 Nov 1999 hummer@hmmwv.net wrote: > > > > MRTG isn't able to get data from the switch anymore. doing it manually > > (via snmpwalk) returns nothing. Any config changes over there? > > Greg - I've had several SNMP packets comming in off the wan targeting > the router - it was basically giving away all of our info to anyone > who wanted to get it via snmp. There's been a lot of traffic recently > comming out of .tw into my DNS and they're showing in the log files of > systems that aren't even published. I wish there was an easy way to > deny *.tw... > > You need to specify a "get password community name" in snmp now > (or simply community name) - the default is "public" or "" - the > new password is "efbhmw", which grants full read access. > > Can you update mrtg with an snmp community name? > > > > > > Given enough time I suppose any problem goes away... > > 207.104.7.130 -> SCcisco-microwave.hmmwv.net > > I suppose pinion is a cisco now. They just bought aironet. > > If you can't beat 'em - buy 'em - that's been HP's path all along. > It's actually good news for aironet since they'll be around, but > probably bad news for their customers since they'll pay cisco > prices for airnoet's technology. > > > > > > -- Greg > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > Return-Path: <owner-netops@rage.net> > > Received: (from majordomo@localhost) > > by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07602 > > for netops-people; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:25:20 -0800 > > X-Authentication-Warning: screamingslave.rage.net: majordomo set sender to owner-netops@rage.net using -f > > Received: (from root@localhost) > > by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07581 > > for netops; Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:25:05 -0800 > > Date: Tue, 9 Nov 1999 20:25:05 -0800 > > Message-Id: <199911100425.UAA07581@screamingslave.rage.net> > > From: root@screamingslave.rage.net (Cron Daemon) > > To: netops@screamingslave.rage.net > > Subject: Cron <netops@screamingslave> mrtg public_html/mrtg/mrtg.cfg > > X-Cron-Env: <SHELL=/bin/sh> > > X-Cron-Env: <HOME=/home/netops> > > X-Cron-Env: <PATH=/usr/bin:/bin> > > X-Cron-Env: <LOGNAME=netops> > > Sender: owner-netops@rage.net > > Precedence: bulk > > Reply-To: netops@rage.net > > > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "10:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "11:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "12:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "1:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "2:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "3:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "4:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "5:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "6:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "7:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "8:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > SNMPGET: Failed to reach target: "9:public@207.104.7.129". I tried multiple times! > > > > > From droberts@dnsbayarea.com Wed Nov 10 10:48:05 1999 Return-Path: <droberts@dnsbayarea.com> Received: from mail25.domainhost.com ([209.224.235.147]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23502 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:48:04 -0800 Received: from droberts (adsl-216-103-88-174.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [216.103.88.174]) by mail25.domainhost.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23699 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 10 Nov 1999 01:51:45 -0600 From: "Daniel Roberts" <droberts@dnsbayarea.com> To: <greg@rage.net> Subject: FW: Wireless starter hardware Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 10:52:04 -0800 Message-ID: <NCBBLAJMMFGGAAAEPJNLAEGICFAA.droberts@dnsbayarea.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal X-Keywords: X-UID: 7276 Status: RO X-Status: Best Regards, Daniel Roberts IT Director Dynamic Network Solutions, Inc. Tel 408-269-5253 Fax 408-264-1907 mobile 408 210-5094 droberts@dnsbayarea.com http://www.dnsbayarea.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com [mailto:owner-isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com]On Behalf Of Dwayne Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 7:53 PM To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com Subject: Re: Wireless starter hardware Kent Andersen wrote: > > we make our own wireless routers and bridges with the Lucent wavelan cards > and a version of linux called LRP www.linuxrouter.org we use solid state > sandisk hard drives, we have snmp, telnet, traffic shaping/accounting. (mail > transport, webserver pop3 optional) we can put a router box together for > less than 500.00 including cable and antenna. What range do they have outdoors? > Its kinda tricky to setup in the beginning but you could mass produce these > when you get the first one working as each flash drive can be copied easy. How big are the drives? What throughput do you get on these? This is *very* interesting, okay for general-purpose commercial stuff but if people really want to get households online this mass-production aspect could be extremely useful. Hmmmm. I might mail you personally about this at some stage. Not now, but I have some ideas.... Dwayne -- mailto:ddraig@pobox.com http://i.am/dwayne e-gold account #108947 "the cricher we kno as dwayne is only the projection into our dimension of something much larger and wirder." ---clae@pa.ausom.net.au ....return....to....the....source.... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ISP-Planet: The Intelligence Center for the ISP Community http://www.isp-planet.com/ Where the world evolves around your ISP-Business _____________ � The ISP-WIRELESS Discussion List � _____________ To Remove: mailto:remove-isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com To Join: mailto:join-isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com From hummer@www.hmmwv.net Mon Nov 15 07:07:22 1999 Return-Path: <hummer@www.hmmwv.net> Received: from www.hmmwv.net (hummer@www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01737 for <wireless@rage.net>; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 07:07:20 -0800 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.hmmwv.net (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id HAA28163 for wireless@rage.net; Mon, 15 Nov 1999 07:15:14 -0800 (PST) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <199911151515.HAA28163@www.hmmwv.net> Subject: New use for pinion To: wireless@rage.net Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 7:15:14 PST X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] X-Keywords: X-UID: 7428 Status: RO X-Status: Previously, we had pinion route the "guestnet" here so that throttling could happen, if required. Reviewing the stats, the guestnet is the least likely network to need throttling. I think we could do without this feature and suffer no loss. A better use would be as an automatic failover router for the primary hmmwvswitch router. I've installed a new 100MB/s backbone between the house & shop building and I'm getting ready to cut over to the router in the shop building instead. The backbone is entirely switched 100 and carrys both the wan and lan traffic. It would be simple to put the 209. wan address on pinion's spare network card. Pinion could then assume the responsibility of pinging, say, the SMC router, the www.hmmwv.net machine, and the 209. wan address through it's normal card. If those fail for any reason, it could assume the 209. wan address on it's 2nd lan card and begin serving as a full router. (it's original 207. card would need to get ~5 new IPs to act as gateway addresses for the subnets routed out that port). Since the switches don't care and can route the WAN traffic to multiple destinations simultaneously, this gives a very seamless cutover in the event the SMC ever goes belly-up (only happened to me once - but having reverse engineered the PCB trying to repair it, I'm not that impressed). I don't care if it pings every 5 seconds - that would basically be the limiter in terms of the cutover time. Let me know what you think here. The switching technology would accommodate this nicely. If I'm traveling for an extended business trip, the added backup would be a great feature. I'm also planning on making a two-way switch for the DSL modems to "swap" them remotely if one should fail. Since the new 1.544/128 line has the same modem as the 384/384 line, the modems are fully interchangable. switching the phone line is all that would be required to cut out a bad modem. This "network" switch can also power cycle devices if required (i.e. shut off a bad router, cycle power on pinion, etc.). That just leaves the wires comming in from pac*hell, which we can all call and bitch about when they go down. BTW - should be getting a second class C today routed through here. I'll keep you posted as to the progress there. It will be a 255.255.255.0 subnet and rely entirely on the switched backbone for traffic isolation. This will make for more efficient utilization of the IP block. Your thoughts? EFB From gherlein@quicknet.net Mon Nov 22 08:44:24 1999 Return-Path: <gherlein@quicknet.net> Received: from paris.quicknet.net ([207.21.171.80]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15209 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 08:44:18 -0800 Received: from localhost (gherlein@localhost) by paris.quicknet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14350 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:57:44 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: paris.quicknet.net: gherlein owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 09:57:43 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Herlein <gherlein@quicknet.net> To: greg@rage.net Subject: Job? Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9911220954400.14292-100000@paris.quicknet.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 7679 Status: RO X-Status: Greg, About 2 years ago or so we spoke/emailed about your wireless router project. Along the way I collected your resume for a job I was consulting on. Now I'm with a small (though pre-IPO) company in San Francisco and I am building out a team to do some very cool things with Internet Telephony. I'm looking for a network engineer to handle some serious installations of servers in a coloc facility, and to build out what will become a network operations center (NOC). I stumbled across your resume this weekend while cleaning my office and thought you'd be perfect! If you are interested at all, can we speak on the phone? Please let me know ASAP. Greg /******************************************************************** Greg Herlein Quicknet Technologies, Inc. Member of Technical Staff 415-864-5225 x541 gherlein@quicknet.net http://www.quicknet.net *********************************************************************/ From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Mon Nov 22 11:51:34 1999 -0800 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 11:51:33 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: hummer@hmmwv.net cc: wireless@rage.net, hummer@www.hmmwv.net Subject: Re: packetfilters for news?!?! In-Reply-To: <199911221129.DAA04946@www.hmmwv.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991122114909.11232H-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 132 Perhaps part of the problem is that Mike does not administer screamingslave. Turn it back on and I'll fix news on my box. -- Greg On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 hummer@hmmwv.net wrote: > Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 3:29:00 PST > From: hummer@hmmwv.net > To: greg@rage.net > Cc: wireless@rage.net, hummer@www.hmmwv.net > Subject: Re: packetfilters for news?!?! > > > > > news.pacbell.net appears filtered from the switch down there. whats up > > with that? that needs to be un-filtered. > > > > -- Greg > > > > > > > Greg/Mike > > Mike and I had been trying to track this wierd "haircomb/heartbeat" > usage pattern on screamingslave where it would use 100% of the DSL > line for ~4 minutes every 15 min or so. I sniffed the packets on > this end, while Mike tried to stop it on your end. It appeared that > the only thing being transmitted was a list of all active newsgroups, > every 15 minutes (alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.hamster.ductape.ram.ram.ram, > etc.) - no actual data, just the group names and current message numbers. > > This had been creating 24-hour a day net-slowdowns due to the large > size of the usenet group list and frequency of transfer. Mike > experienced this slowness going out with sshd, and I experienced it comming in > with telnet - very annoying, and totally useless to send that data that > often, all day long while interactive net usage is being attempted. > > Since Mike could not stop it from happening on screamingslave, I > identified the packet types causing these bursts and filtered > them. Every time I've turned the filter off, the "haircomb/heartbeat" > pattern returns to the network, and the slowdown continues all day long. > It appeared that pacbell was pushing you this information on a regular > basis. Since the filters have been in place, the problem has not come > back. Note - they are only targeted at screamingslave's IP - since that's > where PBI's machines were sending all this data. Other hosts in your > subnet should have no problem accessing news via a normal news reader > to any of PBI's machines - the filters are very specific as to type and > destination, since 100% of the offending traffic was categorized this > way. > > Work with Mike on this to stop the offending traffic and I'll yank > the filters again. If it doesn't return (it's obvious when this is > happening by the MRTG graphs) - I'll leave them de-activated. Mike > thought he had removed them from screamingslave's cron, but that > didn't stop it, so I figured you were getting hammered with them > on PBI's behalf (a push newsfeed of some sorts?). > > I only use packet filters as a last resort - in this case all of Mike's > attempts to stop the problem had failed, so I concluded it was PBI's > actions causing it. They're also pinging the living shit out of my > colo tennants analog modem to his house, so I'm filtering those pings > as well. > > EFB > From mtaht@picketwyre.com Mon Nov 22 14:30:38 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA19657; Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:30:37 -0800 Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:30:37 -0800 (PST) From: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> X-Sender: mtaht@screamingslave.rage.net To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> cc: hummer@hmmwv.net Subject: Re: packetfilters for news?!?! In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991122114909.11232H-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991122142901.17086D-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 7683 Status: RO X-Status: Yep. After bitching at you about it several times, (it was really killing performance) and trying to figure it out myself, I gave up. I didn't ask everett to cut it off, but I'm glad he got your attention. ________ mike "Your freedom to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose." - RMS On Mon, 22 Nov 1999, Greg Retkowski wrote: > Perhaps part of the problem is that Mike does not administer > screamingslave. Turn it back on and I'll fix news on my box. > > -- Greg > > On Mon, 22 Nov 1999 hummer@hmmwv.net wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 3:29:00 PST > > From: hummer@hmmwv.net > > To: greg@rage.net > > Cc: wireless@rage.net, hummer@www.hmmwv.net > > Subject: Re: packetfilters for news?!?! > > > > > > > > news.pacbell.net appears filtered from the switch down there. whats up > > > with that? that needs to be un-filtered. > > > > > > -- Greg > > > > > > > > > > > Greg/Mike > > > > Mike and I had been trying to track this wierd "haircomb/heartbeat" > > usage pattern on screamingslave where it would use 100% of the DSL > > line for ~4 minutes every 15 min or so. I sniffed the packets on > > this end, while Mike tried to stop it on your end. It appeared that > > the only thing being transmitted was a list of all active newsgroups, > > every 15 minutes (alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.hamster.ductape.ram.ram.ram, > > etc.) - no actual data, just the group names and current message numbers. > > > > This had been creating 24-hour a day net-slowdowns due to the large > > size of the usenet group list and frequency of transfer. Mike > > experienced this slowness going out with sshd, and I experienced it comming in > > with telnet - very annoying, and totally useless to send that data that > > often, all day long while interactive net usage is being attempted. > > > > Since Mike could not stop it from happening on screamingslave, I > > identified the packet types causing these bursts and filtered > > them. Every time I've turned the filter off, the "haircomb/heartbeat" > > pattern returns to the network, and the slowdown continues all day long. > > It appeared that pacbell was pushing you this information on a regular > > basis. Since the filters have been in place, the problem has not come > > back. Note - they are only targeted at screamingslave's IP - since that's > > where PBI's machines were sending all this data. Other hosts in your > > subnet should have no problem accessing news via a normal news reader > > to any of PBI's machines - the filters are very specific as to type and > > destination, since 100% of the offending traffic was categorized this > > way. > > > > Work with Mike on this to stop the offending traffic and I'll yank > > the filters again. If it doesn't return (it's obvious when this is > > happening by the MRTG graphs) - I'll leave them de-activated. Mike > > thought he had removed them from screamingslave's cron, but that > > didn't stop it, so I figured you were getting hammered with them > > on PBI's behalf (a push newsfeed of some sorts?). > > > > I only use packet filters as a last resort - in this case all of Mike's > > attempts to stop the problem had failed, so I concluded it was PBI's > > actions causing it. They're also pinging the living shit out of my > > colo tennants analog modem to his house, so I'm filtering those pings > > as well. > > > > EFB > > > > From mtaht@picketwyre.com Wed Dec 1 01:51:57 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA18840 for <roomies@rage.net>; Wed, 1 Dec 1999 01:50:44 -0800 Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 01:50:44 -0800 (PST) From: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> X-Sender: mtaht@screamingslave.rage.net To: roomies@rage.net Subject: pinion Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.991201013951.18733A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 8166 Status: RO X-Status: Pinion is here and now appears to be working normally. It would not route or run tftp correctly or accept telnet connections which is why I brought it up here. Theory: When screamingslave has a default gw other than last, tftp from pinion fails. Other services also fail. Although pinion would eventually boot, it would not accept telnet connections for some reason. ... both routers boot normally now into 384K and 9 and 5. Firewalling is still broken for our VPN connections and IPhone. ... The core problem (why performance went to hell) remains unsolved. ... I will take pinion back to everetts ASAP, but I doubt he will be available until the evening. The antenna and machine were in perfect location and condition. After I get some sleep. I'm sorry our day sucked so bad. I would like to mess with channelcodes some more to find the highest possible frequency. I still believe that ricochet has finally stomped on us. I tried to get 11 and 1 to work with no luck. 10 and 5? ________ mike "Your freedom to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose." - RMS From mtaht@picketwyre.com Thu Dec 9 17:29:32 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18450 for <wireless@rage.net>; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:29:28 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12863; Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:29:26 -0800 Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 17:29:26 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: bob@cringley.com cc: wireless@rage.net Subject: wireless and the power of the net community Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9912091716030.12852-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 9479 Status: RO X-Status: Dear Bob: In reference to your article - http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit19991202.html Why not take advantage of the community power of the internet to get your wireless connection up, now? We did. We had the same problem last year as you did - miles up a mountain, no ADSL, no ISDN, nothing. We had to go wireless. But instead of trying to find a company that could take care of us, we went to the community. We figured out what parts of silicon valley we could "see" electronically (http://www.rage.net/cells.gif), and we emailed some local newsgroups (ba.*) and the SVLUG - bingo, we found a fellow geek with ADSL willing to share his connection, and not only now we have 1Mbit access with 32 IPs for 2/3s of his ADSL costs a month, but we've made a friend. More info at http://www.rage.net/wireless and my diary (http://www.rage.net/~mtaht/wireless/diary.html) tells some more the story of how we were able to cobble up a wireless solution out of linux, spare parts and industry - tho of course my writing is nowhere near as polished and as wonderful as yours.... __________ mike From mtaht@picketwyre.com Fri Dec 10 05:48:43 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@[207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA26445 for <wireless@rage.net>; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 05:47:22 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14744 for <wireless@rage.net>; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 05:46:42 -0800 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 05:46:42 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: wireless@rage.net Subject: packet loss, degredation and now total failure Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9912100542100.14661-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 9500 Status: O X-Status: I have no idea what could be causing this. Starting at about 6PM yesterday I started noticing severe speed loss on the wireless link- latency in the 500-2000ms range to pinion. Over the course of this evening packet loss and speed has been bad. I've been up all night and it's been getting slower and slower. It's a perfectly clear night, it's not rainy, it's not foggy, it's not windy, and we just dropped completely offline at about 5:30 AM. what the fuck, over? Thankfully the line is down so I can get some sleep. __________ mike Positions 47 and 115 of the Kama Sutra are the same except in 115 the woman has her fingers crossed. - Oscar Wilde --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ``Valuations in this sector have been very favorable,'' said Irv DeGraw, research director at WorldFinanceNet.com. ``This is a very fast start for a young firm and, combined with its client list, suggests a good deal of creative talent. However, talent-based firms typically carry considerable risk since people have a tendency to be mobile.'' From Matthew.GREEN@syntegra.bt.co.uk Tue Jan 4 08:13:10 2000 Return-Path: <Matthew.GREEN@syntegra.bt.co.uk> Received: from babelbrox.axion.bt.co.uk (babelbrox.axion.bt.co.uk [132.146.16.6]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12357 for <greg@rage.net>; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 08:13:08 -0800 From: Matthew.GREEN@syntegra.bt.co.uk Received: from fl-exchange-01.syntegra.bt.co.uk by babelbrox.axion.bt.co.uk (local) with ESMTP; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:11:40 +0000 Received: by fl-exchange-01.syntegra.bt.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <CJJ516J4>; Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:06:26 -0000 Message-ID: <4DFDC11EA426D2118D480008C71E309B02D0F201@FL-EXCHANGE-04> To: greg@rage.net Subject: Linux wireless routers Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:11:51 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Keywords: X-UID: 10089 Status: RO X-Status: A Hi Greg, I read with interest your web pages on setting up the wireless routers. I'm interested in a similar thing myself. Quite why no one has decided to use this stuff to offer a full service I'll never know... ...anyhow, you quoted some performance figures for different processors, are these the network throughput rates that can be acheived? Thanks Matt Green Systems Integrator From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Tue Jan 4 14:43:19 2000 -0800 Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 14:43:07 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Matthew.GREEN@syntegra.bt.co.uk cc: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: Re: Linux wireless routers In-Reply-To: <4DFDC11EA426D2118D480008C71E309B02D0F201@FL-EXCHANGE-04> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000104144206.15633B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 209 I think Mike found those numbers; I've CC'ed him and he may be better suited to get you that information. Good luck! -- Greg On Tue, 4 Jan 2000 Matthew.GREEN@syntegra.bt.co.uk wrote: > Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:11:51 -0000 > From: Matthew.GREEN@syntegra.bt.co.uk > To: greg@rage.net > Subject: Linux wireless routers > > Hi Greg, > > I read with interest your web pages on setting up the wireless routers. I'm > interested in a similar thing myself. > > Quite why no one has decided to use this stuff to offer a full service I'll > never know... > > ...anyhow, you quoted some performance figures for different processors, are > these the network throughput rates that can be acheived? > > Thanks > Matt Green > Systems Integrator > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Grand Poobah, Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ "The Internet is not a mall." Ph: 408-353-4650 From Matthew.GREEN@syntegra.bt.co.uk Wed Jan 5 01:28:48 2000 Return-Path: <Matthew.GREEN@syntegra.bt.co.uk> Received: from babelbrox.axion.bt.co.uk (babelbrox.axion.bt.co.uk [132.146.16.6]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22212 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 01:28:47 -0800 From: Matthew.GREEN@syntegra.bt.co.uk Received: from fl-exchange-01.syntegra.bt.co.uk by babelbrox.axion.bt.co.uk (local) with ESMTP; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:25:33 +0000 Received: by fl-exchange-01.syntegra.bt.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <CJJ51958>; Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:20:17 -0000 Message-ID: <4DFDC11EA426D2118D480008C71E309B02D0F207@FL-EXCHANGE-04> To: greg@rage.net Subject: RE: Linux wireless routers Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 09:25:44 -0000 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Keywords: X-UID: 10109 Status: RO X-Status: Thanks! Matt -----Original Message----- From: Greg Retkowski [mailto:greg@rage.net] Sent: 04 January 2000 22:43 To: Matthew.GREEN@syntegra.bt.co.uk Cc: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: Re: Linux wireless routers I think Mike found those numbers; I've CC'ed him and he may be better suited to get you that information. Good luck! -- Greg On Tue, 4 Jan 2000 Matthew.GREEN@syntegra.bt.co.uk wrote: > Date: Tue, 4 Jan 2000 16:11:51 -0000 > From: Matthew.GREEN@syntegra.bt.co.uk > To: greg@rage.net > Subject: Linux wireless routers > > Hi Greg, > > I read with interest your web pages on setting up the wireless routers. I'm > interested in a similar thing myself. > > Quite why no one has decided to use this stuff to offer a full service I'll > never know... > > ...anyhow, you quoted some performance figures for different processors, are > these the network throughput rates that can be acheived? > > Thanks > Matt Green > Systems Integrator > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Grand Poobah, Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ "The Internet is not a mall." Ph: 408-353-4650 From mark@lachniet.com Mon Jan 10 04:37:09 2000 Return-Path: <mark@lachniet.com> Received: from lachniet.com (lachniet.com [198.109.163.194]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA32166 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 04:37:09 -0800 Received: from lachniet.com (markspiece.holt.k12.mi.us [204.38.68.5]) by lachniet.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA05924; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 07:35:25 -0500 Message-ID: <3879D1D6.1E6ECC0E@lachniet.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 04:34:30 -0800 From: Mark Lachniet <mark@lachniet.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: mtaht@picketwyre.com, greg@rage.net Subject: Cool site Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Keywords: X-UID: 10492 Status: RO X-Status: I like the way you documented your wireless experiences! I have a working LRP 1.44 disk with Wavelan and eepro100 drivers working on it (Kilimanjaro). Mark Lachniet ftp://lachniet.com/pub/lrp From mtaht@picketwyre.com Mon Jan 10 11:35:37 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03855 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:35:37 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31261; Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:35:18 -0800 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 11:35:18 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: Mark Lachniet <mark@lachniet.com> cc: greg@rage.net Subject: Re: Cool site In-Reply-To: <3879D1D6.1E6ECC0E@lachniet.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001101132480.31243-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 10497 Status: RO X-Status: Thanks. Our goal was simply to spread the knowledge around. The dream of course, is for everyone in the world to start bypassing the phone company, but that isn't going to happen. We had planned to revise it using more modern technology over christmas, but I got sucked into working on stuff for the DVD thing... happy monday! ------ mike WORLD USHERS IN 19100 WITHOUT INCIDENT FEARS OF Y2K PROBLEMS COMPLETELY GROUNDLESS On Mon, 10 Jan 2000, Mark Lachniet wrote: > I like the way you documented your wireless experiences! I have a > working LRP 1.44 disk with Wavelan and eepro100 drivers working on it > (Kilimanjaro). > > Mark Lachniet > ftp://lachniet.com/pub/lrp > From jesse@kci.net Thu Jan 13 09:39:36 2000 Return-Path: <jesse@kci.net> Received: from ziggy.kci.net (postfix@[206.168.28.220]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14429 for <greg@rage.net>; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:39:34 -0800 Received: from ziggy.kci.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ziggy.kci.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CB5AE52090; Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:44:03 -0700 (MST) From: Jesse Norell <jesse@kci.net> Reply-To: jesse@kci.net Organization: Kentec Communications, Inc. To: greg@rage.net, mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: Omni Antenna Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:36:00 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.0.28] Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <00011310440300.12057@ziggy.kci.net> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Keywords: X-UID: 10589 Status: RO X-Status: Hello, From your wireless howto: ----------- We've yet to try it, as an omnidirectional antenna would be a rather expensive, and probably non-refundable, experiment. Personally I'm very impressed by the noise rejection characteristics of spread spectrum radio, and would love to try it. Takers, anyone? ----------- Omni's work great for access points, as your clients can be in any direction. You could well have problems trying to use them at 13 miles, though, as their gain is not nearly what your 24dbi grid gives you. We have one 12 mile hop with a 8dbi Omni on one end and a 24dbi grid on the other, with 100mwatt 2.4GHz frequency hopping radio on each end, and there are problems in rain/snow, but it works fine rest of the time. This is 1MB radio (RDC Communications .. now bought by Marconi and discontinued); I'm quite sure 11Mb radio wouldn't work (though we're about to try Aironet PCI4800 cards and find out). -- Jesse Norell jesse@kci.net From mtaht@picketwyre.com Thu Jan 27 14:23:37 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28539 for <wireless@rage.net>; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:23:35 -0800 Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28166; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:23:24 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 14:23:24 -0800 (PST) From: mtaht@picketwyre.com X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: Ian Kluft <ikluft@cisco.com> cc: Dave Zarzycki KF6ZSS <dave@thor.sbay.org>, wireless@rage.net Subject: Re: wireless network (was: confused) In-Reply-To: <200001272134.NAA10864@omega.cisco.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001271345490.28027-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 10968 Status: RO X-Status: Thanks for linking to us so prominently. Nice to meet you in person. Our top node is about 1000' up in Redwood Estates.(across the street from the general store). The lat/long I get back from mapquest is: slt=37.1584 sln=-121.9860 We have a fairly narrow slice of the valley in view - see the readings we took off of ricochet at: http://www.rage.net/cells.gif We are not anywhere near the top of the mountain. One plan was to extend the network to the pizza parlour across the street, then expand up and over the mountain via word of mouth. About a year and a half ago, we (greg,mtaht,hummer@hmmwv.net) put a lot of work and thought into trying to come up with a "wireless internet co-operative" much like you are trying to do with sbay.net. some of those documents are still around here somewhere. It's only got more cost effective now - the airolan 4800 cards are only 500 bucks each, so the cost per node down to less than a grand, easily. I love the idea of dropping off the official inernet entirely and living inside of a "private network" one with largely non-commercial goals much like the original internet. I'd want to block banner ads and junk email by default - bandwidth IS limited - no other censorship is allowed... no commercial use... but I don't know if anyone else would share my agenda. I think the private IP scheme you describe on your site is workable, given a few preconditions. Linux's firewall and ip_masqing code is quite stable and usable. I have a decent Linux NAT implementation that we did for mediaplex that has one minor bug - I keep hoping the mainstream kernel picks it up.... 0) Establish internal igrp/BGP/OSPF routing for the entire private network 1) Publish standards for getting on the net (fw,name service, sample linux boot code, etc) 2) Assign addresses via static DHCP for household routers and dynamic DHCP for clients 3) Have a "Box", recycled perhaps, like our wireless router, that you can just drop in place for low cost - work on financing schemes and non-profit status for the co-operative - needs to support connecting to the network, dynamic routing, and firewall functionality. Supports 1 IP by default, masqs the rest, so each household has a gateway to the net, supports all services on that router, notably email, ssh, and web service. charge for more than public ip 4) Don't charge a cent for being on, charge for meetings, hardware, services. find some way of encouraging people with ADSL connections to connect up.and sharing this alternate backbone - a side effort of a secure vpn... freeswan? 5) Establish that the network backbone will (ultimately) be ipv6, offering more flexibility for ip connections to households. 6) Use NAT to connect to each household IP, each household then masqs the rest of it's network ------ mike Threads are for people that can't program state machines. - Alan Cox On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Ian Kluft wrote: > > From: mtaht@picketwyre.com > > see http://www.rage.net/wireless > > Thanks. > > > we're at about 1000 feet. > > 1000 feet where? An exact location isn't needed but a direction would help > to get a bigger picture. > > I see your domain is registered in Redwood Estates. So I'm starting to > guess your mountaintop is also on the ridge overlooking Los Gatos... > -- > Ian Kluft KO6YQ PP-ASEL Cisco Systems, Inc. > ikluft(at)cisco.com (work) ikluft(at)thunder.sbay.org (home) San Jose, CA > From ikluft@cisco.com Thu Jan 27 15:36:39 2000 Return-Path: <ikluft@cisco.com> Received: from omega.cisco.com (omega.cisco.com [171.69.63.141]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29403 for <wireless@rage.net>; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:36:37 -0800 Received: (from ikluft@localhost) by omega.cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id PAA00075; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:35:33 -0800 (PST) From: Ian Kluft <ikluft@cisco.com> Message-Id: <200001272335.PAA00075@omega.cisco.com> Subject: Re: wireless network (was: confused) To: mtaht@picketwyre.com Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:35:33 -0800 (PST) Cc: dave@thor.sbay.org (Dave Zarzycki KF6ZSS), wireless@rage.net In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001271345490.28027-100000@lugosi> from "mtaht@picketwyre.com" at Jan 27, 2000 02:23:24 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Keywords: X-UID: 10977 Status: RO X-Status: > From: mtaht@picketwyre.com [...] > I'd want to block banner ads and junk email by default - bandwidth IS > limited - no other censorship is allowed... no commercial use... but I > don't know if anyone else would share my agenda. Only in Silicon Valley would you find others who think that way. Take a look at the revised sbay.org charter & policies which was just posted for review this week. http://www.sbay.org/sbay-policy-2000-draft.html It isn't official yet and may be subject to revision still if any sbay.org participants send review comments suggesting changes. We've only gotten one response back so far it was an approval without modifications. If you start to think you want in, take a look over the policies and make sure they're something you can live with - now's the best chance to get a voice in on them. > I think the private IP scheme you describe on your site is workable, given > a few preconditions. Linux's firewall and ip_masqing code is quite stable > and usable. I have a decent Linux NAT implementation that we did for > mediaplex that has one minor bug - I keep hoping the mainstream kernel > picks it up.... Dave is already doing early experiments with the firewall/NAT features. Mike Furman put a Linux server on Montebello Ridge and Dave has wireless clients at his residence in Cupertino and his parents' house in Fremont. > 0) Establish internal igrp/BGP/OSPF routing for the entire private network Yeah, we haven't spelled out what that standard will be but that's what we had in mind. I also intend to look into RSFP (Radio Shortest Path First) which Hams use for packet radio and takes radio flaws/features into account. > 1) Publish standards for getting on the net (fw,name service, sample linux > boot code, etc) Yes, also among our plans. Dave is the Wireless Network coordinator so that will be his responsibility. But we'll all pitch in to the effort to put the plan together, and soon. > 2) Assign addresses via static DHCP for household routers and dynamic DHCP > for clients We might not be so restrictive. I'll let Dave explain his plan for the wireless network addressing. Within each site, we'll manage address space but we won't dictate how to assign each machine. > 3) Have a "Box", recycled perhaps, like our wireless router, that you can > just drop in place for low cost - work on financing schemes and non-profit > status for the co-operative - needs to support connecting to the network, > dynamic routing, and firewall functionality. Supports 1 IP by default, > masqs the rest, so each household has a gateway to the net, supports > all services on that router, notably email, ssh, and web service. I bought that parts and built (with Dave's assistance on some of the assembly) a rack-mount server for our Los Gatos hills site. > charge for more than public ip ??? > 4) Don't charge a cent for being on, charge for meetings, > hardware, services. We're not planning to have the organization charge for anything. It's just an informal association. However, any routing agreements among individuals may (or may not) include reimbursement for portions of bandwidth used. > find some way of encouraging people with ADSL connections to connect > up.and sharing this alternate backbone - a side effort of a secure vpn... > freeswan? That's a difficult problem. Some of that is under discussion now on our wireless network mail list. > 5) Establish that the network backbone will (ultimately) be ipv6, offering > more flexibility for ip connections to households. Ummmm... Yeah. Dave works in the IPv6 group at Apple. SBAY Wireless is already running IPv4 and IPv6 native. > 6) Use NAT to connect to each household IP, each household then masqs > the rest of it's network We'll require that you firewall off your own network from the Internet and from the wireless network. But besides firewall and routing standards, we won't dictate much of what you can or have to do with your home network. We don't want to be any more intrusive than necessary to construct the network. -- Ian Kluft KO6YQ PP-ASEL Cisco Systems, Inc. ikluft(at)cisco.com (work) ikluft(at)thunder.sbay.org (home) San Jose, CA From dave@thor.sbay.org Thu Jan 27 15:37:36 2000 Return-Path: <dave@thor.sbay.org> Received: from jord.thor.sbay.org (adsl-209-233-238-6.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [209.233.238.6]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29413 for <wireless@rage.net>; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:37:35 -0800 Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by jord.thor.sbay.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03996; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:35:47 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: jord.thor.sbay.org: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 15:35:47 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Zarzycki <dave@thor.sbay.org> To: mtaht@picketwyre.com cc: Ian Kluft <ikluft@cisco.com>, wireless@rage.net Subject: Re: wireless network (was: confused) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001271345490.28027-100000@lugosi> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001271426570.3546-100000@jord.thor.sbay.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 10978 Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 mtaht@picketwyre.com wrote: > Our top node is about 1000' up in Redwood Estates.(across the street from > the general store). The lat/long I get back from mapquest is: I'll provide you two bearings later this evening. > About a year and a half ago, we (greg,mtaht,hummer@hmmwv.net) put a lot of > work and thought into trying to come up with a "wireless internet > co-operative" much like you are trying to do with sbay.net. some of those > documents are still around here somewhere. I would be very interested in seeing the documents. > 1) ... > ... > *) ... After reading your list of ideas in the last message, I feel that I should mention that the sbay.org network has slightly different goals. I would encourage you to read the web sites and ask questions. Please also keep in mind that the sbay.org policies will be updated in the near future too. If you have the time and are interested, I would like to encourage you to attend one of our informal pizza meetings. davez -- Dave Zarzycki KF6ZSS http://thor.sbay.org/~dave/ http://www.sbay.net/ From mtaht@picketwyre.com Thu Jan 27 16:21:36 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30021 for <wireless@rage.net>; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:21:34 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28477; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:20:36 -0800 Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:20:36 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: Ian Kluft <ikluft@cisco.com> cc: Dave Zarzycki KF6ZSS <dave@thor.sbay.org>, wireless@rage.net Subject: Re: wireless network (was: confused) In-Reply-To: <200001272335.PAA00075@omega.cisco.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001271601230.28397-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 10980 Status: RO X-Status: > Only in Silicon Valley would you find others who think that way. Take a > look at the revised sbay.org charter & policies which was just posted for > review this week. > http://www.sbay.org/sbay-policy-2000-draft.html The policies are generally, certainly agreeable. What I wrote before specifically, is what I wanted was a *DEFAULT* of a commercial free and secure internet (junkbuster/squid proxies, rbl, no telnet) - you join, you learn/get your system up this way, and then you choose to opt-in to the "normal" internet if you want to. My bet is that most people wouldn't want to. Banner ads eat valuable bandwidth that others could use. > > charge for more than public ip > ??? somehow, some money has to flow into the system somewhere. There's plenty of incentive for someone to get on the wireless net, but precious little for someone to go through the hassle of sharing his ADSL or T1 bandwidth with everyone around him unless some clear benefit can be found. (at least initially. As the wireless net gains complexity and users it starts to take on much of the general geometric usefulness of the internet itself) The deal we have with hmmwv is that we pay 2/3s his ADSL bill. He gets ADSL speeds most of the time at 1/3 the cost. Similar cost-sharing agreements are possible for other nodes, and then an umbrella organization/association for all that tries to ensure you have similar privileges wherever you go. I like the idea of broadcasting 2.4 Ghz to anyone, no matter where you go, and there being informal reciprocity agreements. Take the harbor model for example. Once you give your boat a home harbor, paying a monthly fee into the harbor association, you are generally entitled to take advantage of harbor facilities any where else you may dock at. I felt a really good place to establish this internet model would be in boat harbors throughout the bay area. Lots of people with boats, lots of harbor associations... > From dave@thor.sbay.org Thu Jan 27 16:52:57 2000 Return-Path: <dave@thor.sbay.org> Received: from jord.thor.sbay.org (adsl-209-233-238-6.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [209.233.238.6]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30314 for <wireless@rage.net>; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:52:55 -0800 Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by jord.thor.sbay.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04661; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:50:56 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: jord.thor.sbay.org: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 16:50:56 -0800 (PST) From: Dave Zarzycki <dave@thor.sbay.org> To: mtaht@picketwyre.com cc: Ian Kluft <ikluft@cisco.com>, wireless@rage.net Subject: Re: wireless network (was: confused) In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001271601230.28397-100000@lugosi> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001271626420.4566-100000@jord.thor.sbay.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 10981 Status: RO X-Status: Like I said, I would thoroughly enjoy reading your documents, but I think that sbay.org and it's wireless network has somewhat different agendas. If you would like to get together sometime before the next sbay pizza meeting and discuss our network and your ideas, I think we could arrange something. davez -- Dave Zarzycki KF6ZSS http://thor.sbay.org/~dave/ http://www.sbay.net/ From ikluft@cisco.com Thu Jan 27 20:51:09 2000 Return-Path: <ikluft@cisco.com> Received: from omega.cisco.com (omega.cisco.com [171.69.63.141]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32540 for <wireless@rage.net>; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:51:07 -0800 Received: (from ikluft@localhost) by omega.cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) id UAA07267; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:50:21 -0800 (PST) From: Ian Kluft <ikluft@cisco.com> Message-Id: <200001280450.UAA07267@omega.cisco.com> Subject: Re: wireless network (was: confused) To: mtaht@picketwyre.com Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 20:50:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: dave@thor.sbay.org (Dave Zarzycki KF6ZSS), wireless@rage.net In-Reply-To: <no.id> from "ikluft" at Jan 27, 2000 03:35:33 PM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Keywords: X-UID: 10987 Status: RO X-Status: > > 4) Don't charge a cent for being on, charge for meetings, > > hardware, services. > > We're not planning to have the organization charge for anything. It's > just an informal association. However, any routing agreements among > individuals may (or may not) include reimbursement for portions of > bandwidth used. That was from a very old discussion and is apparently not current thinking any more on the SBAY Wireless net. After talking with Dave on the phone about this, he pointed out what we've learned and decided that changed that since then. So I'm going to correct myself... It's still true that that SBAY Wireless isn't going to charge for connecting to the WLAN, for sites who "qualify". (We're still writing that definition.) But the older discussions about how to prevent abuse of volunteers' bandwidth did not find any cases where we'd encourage anyone to arrange routing packets for a fee. If we allow that, someone would end up trying to set up a wireless ISP over our personally-owned repeaters. That wouldn't work as a long-term arrangement, which is a primary goal. We're still figuring out how to make a sustainable arrangement that prevents abuse of either of this network's different sources of bandwidth: 1) The wireless bandwidth is owned and provided by the owners of the repeaters. Dave owns the 802.11 repeater on Montebello Ridge and I'll own the one overlooking Los Gatos, which might have visibility to Redwood Estates. 2) The Internet bandwidth is provided by Wireless client sites who have Internet connectivity. Most of these are expected to be residential. We don't yet know what to do with users who don't fit in either of these categories. The main thought was we'd be backup bandwidth and mail delivery for each other, in case of ISP outages. And there's plenty of room to experiment with an inter-residential wireless network. (H.323 intercom! :-) But each of us would either have our own primary Internet bandwidth or provide and operate a repeater in an advantageous location for the network. But for a site to get its primary Internet bandwidth through a repeater and others' residential Internet connections, the usage vs contribution is so out-of-balance that these would at least appear to be leeching off the other volunteers. That's not a sustainable scenario. But it is one of the big setup criteria issues we're discussing. So now the part we'd need you to help think of - what kind of volunteer participation could even that out? We know there will be people who want to do this. We just haven't thought through it far enough to figure this out. You've got more incentive to find something that'll work so help us think through this... This doesn't have to be solved immediately. It isn't a trivial question and might take some time before the right creativity hits someone. -- Ian Kluft KO6YQ PP-ASEL Cisco Systems, Inc. ikluft(at)cisco.com (work) ikluft(at)thunder.sbay.org (home) San Jose, CA From hummer@www.frequencystandard.com Thu Jan 27 22:27:07 2000 Return-Path: <hummer@www.frequencystandard.com> Received: from www.frequencystandard.com (hummer@www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00644 for <wireless@rage.net>; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:27:06 -0800 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.frequencystandard.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id WAA02612; Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:27:52 -0800 (PST) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <200001280627.WAA02612@www.frequencystandard.com> Subject: Re: wireless network (was: confused) To: dave@thor.sbay.org Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 22:27:52 PST Cc: wireless@rage.net In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001271904380.6171-100000@jord.thor.sbay.org>; from "Dave Zarzycki" at Jan 27, 100 7:11 pm X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] X-Keywords: X-UID: 10988 Status: RO X-Status: Mike - What are your goals here? I just got back from another negotiation session with the site acquisition firm I was telling you about earlier - it looks now like we'll have a total of 7 sites - from gilroy to SF - all mid-level with T1s and cisco routers at each site to run telemetry data on the site hardware - in the contract I stipulated that I was to have a rack to myself for site management, and that they would provide a 10 base T and class C to the rack. Basically they don't run anything smaller than a T1/cisco and don't care what I use the remainder of the b/w for so long as the telemetry data gets through OK (which could run on a 9600 baud modem! - the backup link!) - so with 7 sites, 7 T1s, the only thing remaining in my book is to start buying the 4800 cards. What I do understand from a friend at work (he's 1/2 time in colorado and 1/2 time here in cupertino) is that the 4800 cards need a special patch if you're going over 1 mile - they have a spanning tree timing violation that takes place on "wide" area wireless - which really wasn't the intent of the 4800 card. He also gave me some really good advice - NEVER - EVER - upgrage the card over the radio link - result is corrupted firmware, and a UPS red label shipment back to aironet to re-flash the EEPROM - they wrecked 7 of these cards along the front range in colorado, where they have a very viable wireless internet coop running (he's at the way far end - like 5 hops to his house - but it's only 3ms per hop). - cost them 2 days of unplanned downtime for the whole net due to a bad firmware update. Anyways - call my cell phone tomorrow and fill me in on what you're trying to accomplish - I don't know which sites will see your place, but I do know 3 that I can hit from my house, so worst case, we hop to me, then up to you on the existing link. The class C's are going to be spread all over the place, though, and will likely have a few IPs missing out of each for their hardware - so this might make for some interesting proxy-arps routing to maintain the 255.255.255.0 SNM, but hey - there's got to be some way of backup, even if it's just done with DNS entries. EFB > > On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 mtaht@picketwyre.com wrote: > > > slt=37.1584 > > sln=-121.9860 > > > > We have a fairly narrow slice of the valley in view - see the readings we > > took off of ricochet at: > > Here are the two approximate bearings: > > 3.7 miles, 31 degrees. > 11.5 miles, 325 degrees. > > Both sites are approximately 1900 feet in altitude. > > So, if you don't mind me asking, do you think you have LOS* to either > site? > > davez > > * Line of sight > > -- > Dave Zarzycki KF6ZSS > http://thor.sbay.org/~dave/ > http://www.sbay.net/ > > From mtaht@picketwyre.com Fri Jan 28 00:10:40 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA01608; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:10:37 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 00:10:37 -0800 (PST) From: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> X-Sender: mtaht@screamingslave.rage.net To: hummer@hmmwv.net cc: dave@thor.sbay.org, wireless@rage.net Subject: Re: wireless network (was: confused) In-Reply-To: <200001280627.WAA02612@www.frequencystandard.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000128001000.1557C-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 10992 Status: RO X-Status: Spanning tree is a term usually used in bridged IPX/SPX networks. If that is the case you have nothing to worry about. ------ mike WORLD USHERS IN 1900 WITHOUT INCIDENT FEARS OF Y2K PROBLEMS COMPLETELY GROUNDLESS (http://www.drudge.com) On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 hummer@hmmwv.net wrote: > Mike - > > What are your goals here? I just got back from another negotiation > session with the site acquisition firm I was telling you about earlier - > it looks now like we'll have a total of 7 sites - from gilroy to SF - > all mid-level with T1s and cisco routers at each site to run telemetry > data on the site hardware - in the contract I stipulated that I was to > have a rack to myself for site management, and that they would provide > a 10 base T and class C to the rack. Basically they don't run anything > smaller than a T1/cisco and don't care what I use the remainder of the b/w > for so long as the telemetry data gets through OK (which could run on a 9600 > baud modem! - the backup link!) - so with 7 sites, 7 T1s, the only thing > remaining in my book is to start buying the 4800 cards. > > What I do understand from a friend at work (he's 1/2 time in colorado > and 1/2 time here in cupertino) is that the 4800 cards need a special > patch if you're going over 1 mile - they have a spanning tree timing > violation that takes place on "wide" area wireless - which really wasn't > the intent of the 4800 card. He also gave me some really good advice - > NEVER - EVER - upgrage the card over the radio link - result is corrupted > firmware, and a UPS red label shipment back to aironet to re-flash the > EEPROM - they wrecked 7 of these cards along the front range in colorado, > where they have a very viable wireless internet coop running (he's at the > way far end - like 5 hops to his house - but it's only 3ms per hop). - > cost them 2 days of unplanned downtime for the whole net due to a bad > firmware update. > > Anyways - call my cell phone tomorrow and fill me in on what you're > trying to accomplish - I don't know which sites will see your place, > but I do know 3 that I can hit from my house, so worst case, we hop > to me, then up to you on the existing link. The class C's are going > to be spread all over the place, though, and will likely have a few > IPs missing out of each for their hardware - so this might make for > some interesting proxy-arps routing to maintain the 255.255.255.0 > SNM, but hey - there's got to be some way of backup, even if it's > just done with DNS entries. > > EFB > > > > > > > On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 mtaht@picketwyre.com wrote: > > > > > slt=37.1584 > > > sln=-121.9860 > > > > > > We have a fairly narrow slice of the valley in view - see the readings we > > > took off of ricochet at: > > > > Here are the two approximate bearings: > > > > 3.7 miles, 31 degrees. > > 11.5 miles, 325 degrees. > > > > Both sites are approximately 1900 feet in altitude. > > > > So, if you don't mind me asking, do you think you have LOS* to either > > site? > > > > davez > > > > * Line of sight > > > > -- > > Dave Zarzycki KF6ZSS > > http://thor.sbay.org/~dave/ > > http://www.sbay.net/ > > > > > From mtaht@picketwyre.com Fri Jan 28 11:02:03 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08206 for <wireless@rage.net>; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:01:59 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31237; Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:01:59 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:01:59 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: wireless@rage.net cc: mischief@maelstrom.org Subject: PCI and ISA 11Mbit cards here wednesday Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001281058070.31189-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 11001 Status: RO X-Status: A I just got another set of loaner cards from nascorp. I figure I'll turn what was "quick" into a working redhat 6.1 machine for a test of the core driver, etc, then haul that down to everetts house. Is there another pinion class machine in the house for the other side of the test? I also have the PCMCIA wireless card. ------ mike Threads are for people that can't program state machines. - Alan Cox From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Fri Jan 28 11:04:09 2000 -0800 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:04:09 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: mtaht@picketwyre.com cc: wireless@rage.net, mischief@maelstrom.org Subject: Re: PCI and ISA 11Mbit cards here wednesday In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001281058070.31189-100000@lugosi> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000128110244.7947A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 299 hrm. gaveup is currently doing IAB stuff.. if my iHack box stays running then my old desktop box may be suitable. If you dont require a real bus I've got a 486 which can't be blown away but can certainly manage a lrp boot. -- Greg On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 mtaht@picketwyre.com wrote: > Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:01:59 -0800 (PST) > From: mtaht@picketwyre.com > To: wireless@rage.net > Cc: mischief@maelstrom.org > Subject: PCI and ISA 11Mbit cards here wednesday > > > I just got another set of loaner cards from nascorp. I figure I'll turn > what was "quick" into a working redhat 6.1 machine for a test of the core > driver, etc, then haul that down to everetts house. Is there another > pinion class machine in the house for the other side of the test? > > I also have the PCMCIA wireless card. > > ------ > mike > > Threads are for people that can't program state machines. - Alan Cox > > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From mtaht@picketwyre.com Mon Jan 31 23:15:53 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00221 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:15:53 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10955 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:15:50 -0800 Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:15:50 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: greg@rage.net Subject: wireless playing Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001312315170.10496-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 11103 Status: RO X-Status: A can you play with the new wireless stuff with me tomorrow? ------ mike "Telnetting for the first time was a genuinely religious experience. Wow. I'm over here." - John Perry Barlow From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Tue Feb 1 13:32:02 2000 -0800 Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:32:02 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: Re: wireless playing In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10001312315170.10496-100000@lugosi> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000201131839.8534A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 306 If I can do it from work... I'm having a frustrating day, the CTO just demanded that all the Linux workstations (~30) have to have static addresses. -- Greg On Mon, 31 Jan 2000 mtaht@picketwyre.com wrote: > Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:15:50 -0800 (PST) > From: mtaht@picketwyre.com > To: greg@rage.net > Subject: wireless playing > > > can you play with the new wireless stuff with me tomorrow? > > ------ > mike > > "Telnetting for the first time was a genuinely religious experience. > Wow. I'm over here." - John Perry Barlow > > > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From mtaht@picketwyre.com Wed Feb 2 10:32:38 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20888 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:32:38 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15856 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:32:37 -0800 Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 10:32:37 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: greg@rage.net Subject: laptop upgrade Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002021023210.15765-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 11163 Status: RO X-Status: ok, I upgraded yer laptop. Now I can't login - I type in the login, hit return, and boom I get back to the login prompt. ??? I'm working in single user mode at the moment... Aside from that the upgrade itself went smoothly... Nifty, sshd blows up with an "illegal instruction"... hmm... the wireless driver insmods but I haven't convinced the two cards to see each other yet. Very puzzled. Ah, well, it's fun, almost like the old dayz.... YP is enabled on quick and serving from lugosi. I haven't worked out everything I'm going to do yet, but I do want to get the network stable enough to start centralizing services again. I need to take a backup desparately! 100Mbit rocks. :) I have a new machine running off the removable drive "kernel.picketwyre.com". ------ mike "Telnetting for the first time was a genuinely religious experience. Wow. I'm over here." - John Perry Barlow From klomp@jhinet.com Wed Feb 2 13:33:43 2000 Return-Path: <klomp@jhinet.com> Received: from jhinet.com (trusty.jhinet.com [208.162.247.3]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22615 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 2 Feb 2000 13:33:41 -0800 Received: by jhinet.com from localhost (router,SLMail V3.2); Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:35:09 -0700 Received: from dev08 [206.54.106.54] by jhinet.com [208.162.247.5] (SLmail 3.2.3113) with SMTP id 26C7E771D5D711D381FB0090275C30B2 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:35:08 -0700 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000202144242.0094dba0@mail.jhinet.com> X-Sender: klomp@mail.jhinet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 14:42:42 -0700 To: greg@rage.net From: "SCK" <klomp@jhinet.com> Subject: A couple wireless questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-SLUIDL: 1F9B2A0B-D5D711D3-81FB0090-275C30B2 X-Keywords: X-UID: 11165 Status: RO X-Status: A Hey there, I am looking into setting up a wireless network similar to yours, and have really enjoyed reading your howto. The topology is going to differ a little bit and I wanted to get your opinion on something. We have a building (call it building A) that is going to act as our gateway to the internet, and we plan to put an omni here because we have two satellite buildings (B and C) that have LOS to A. No biggie, and each building is going to have a dedicated box to act as the router. Now to complicate things, here is the issue: We have a fourth building (D) that doesnt have LOS to A, but it is very close to, and has LOS to C. Would it be possible to use an omni at C instead of a uni and set up the routing at C so it will pass packets from D to A, as well as route to the hosts at building C? It seems like it should work, and do you think I am correct in setting up the router at C like: ifconfig eth0 my_ip_address pointopoint gateway_address route add -host gateway_address dev eth1 route add -host first_client dev eth1 route add -host second_client dev eth1 (and so on...) ...plus route add -host address_of_building_D_router dev eth1 Another thought, how do you think the kernel bridging code would work with wireless (if at all)? Thanks so much in advance for any help and suggestions you may be able to pass on. I really enjoyed your howto -- Not only is your project super practical, it's way cool. Shawn From mtaht@picketwyre.com Thu Feb 3 10:46:48 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02175 for <greg@rage.net>; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:46:48 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26002 for <greg@rage.net>; Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:46:47 -0800 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:46:47 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Subject: laptop update In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000203090932.1234A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002031045010.25990-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 11220 Status: RO X-Status: Somehow libcrypt had been corrupted on install. Works now. Starting in on the wireless side of affairs. I think we both were too unconcious to talk this morning. I know I was. I think I have got hummer to redesign the network to something that would work better than what we have now. Want to roll it by you. (btw, rsync ROCKS) ------ mike "Telnetting for the first time was a genuinely religious experience. Wow. I'm over here." - John Perry Barlow From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Thu Feb 3 11:16:44 2000 -0800 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:16:43 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> Reply-To: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: Re: laptop update In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002031045010.25990-100000@lugosi> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000203111358.2424A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 309 On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 mtaht@picketwyre.com wrote: > Starting in on the wireless side of affairs. I think we both were too > unconcious to talk this morning. I know I was. I think I have got hummer > to redesign the network to something that would work better than what we > have now. Want to roll it by you. Send out a 'Request For Comments'. In all seriousness write it down we'll all review it and once we all have something in writing we can agree on then we'll implement it. -- Greg PS: I got marvin's address, if you could do me a favor write it on the fridge whiteboard for me. its.. Marvin & Julie Smith PO Box 5032 Hilo, HI 96720 Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From mtaht@picketwyre.com Sat Feb 5 05:11:52 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA27265 for <wireless@rage.net>; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 05:11:22 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11350 for <wireless@rage.net>; Sat, 5 Feb 2000 05:11:21 -0800 Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2000 05:11:21 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: wireless@rage.net Subject: 5 AM wireless lan progress Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002050504460.11261-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 11249 Status: RO X-Status: I have been able to establish a 11Mbit connection between the laptop and the PC. First I must note that 11Mbit is bullshit - it's half duplex, so 5.5Mbit is the upper limit. Which I achieved in some ftps earlier. Latency is in the 1.7-3ms range. Not bad. The card outputs 100Mw, which I think is double that of the cards we are currently using. However: the driver locks up the computer after about 5 minutes - there is some discussion of this on the mailing list, it may just be a suspend-mode bug on the laptop. I need to scrounge another PC to work on. 802.11 is not well supported (no mobile IP or access point mode) there are two competing drivers. The one that I'm using (and crashing) is available for linux 2.2. The one that elmer joandi (author of our existing drivers for the arlan card) is working on is available for linux 2.3, which being an odd-numbered release, is still in development. Elmer's driver looks more complete. I may try backporting it to 2.2. Or I may just shoot myself. I will be testing the 2.3 driver shortly. ------ mike "Telnetting for the first time was a genuinely religious experience. Wow. I'm over here." - John Perry Barlow </pre> <a name=80211b></a> <pre> From mtaht@picketwyre.com Tue Feb 8 10:43:46 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11637 for <wireless@rage.net>; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:43:44 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29174; Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:42:43 -0800 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 10:42:43 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: aironet@csl.cse.ucsc.edu cc: wireless@rage.net Subject: Firmware/packet loss/802.11 In-Reply-To: <200002081454.GAA15440@enkidu.cse.ucsc.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002080937110.28976-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 11320 Status: RO X-Status: I just got 3 aironet 4800 series cards - one each of the ISA, PCMCIA, and PCI cards. Got the Linux airo.c driver working on my laptop and a scratch PC. My intent is to upgrade our household wireless link to the internet to 2Mbit or better. (currently we use the old arlan 655 card at 384Kbps) Any attempt to seriously use (flood pings) the 4800 cards in a 2 ft distance wireless connection results in tons of lost packets. (50% or more). The arlan card we are currently using does link level error correction, so it is generally much better about losing packets - it gets slower and slower, but doesn't lose packets on a 13 mile connection unless the weather is really bad. A) Does the 4800 do link level error correction? B) what tunables would I use to address some of the packet loss? Over long distances? The firmware on all three cards appears out of date. PCMCIA: 2.22 PCI: 3.13 I don't have a windows laptop available to do a firmware upgrade on the PCMCIA card... I'm a little gunshy of prying out the antenna connector on the PCI card to pull it out and insert the other PCMCIA card. ? C) Is it possible to do a linux based upgrade of the firmware? After mucking with airo.c I messed with Linux 2.3.X's driver for this card by Elmer Joandi, (who also wrote the arlan driver we used in http://www.rage.net/wireless) Wow. That's a big driver. More parameters than god ever intended. It interoperates with the airo driver on the other machine pretty good, which is encouraging. D) Is there an effort going on to merge these two drivers together or decide on one or the other so to have something that works well when 2.3 ships? E) Adhoc mode works. ESS doesn't. ? ------ mike "Telnetting for the first time was a genuinely religious experience. Wow. I'm over here." - John Perry Barlow From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Tue Feb 8 16:35:36 2000 -0800 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:35:27 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: SCK <klomp@jhinet.com> cc: wireless@rage.net Subject: Re: A couple wireless questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000202144242.0094dba0@mail.jhinet.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000208162358.12855B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 318 On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, SCK wrote: > Hey there, > > I am looking into setting up a wireless network similar to yours, and have > really enjoyed reading your howto. The topology is going to differ a little > bit and I wanted to get your opinion on something. We have a building (call > it building A) that is going to act as our gateway to the internet, and we > plan to put an omni here because we have two satellite buildings (B and C) > that have LOS to A. No biggie, and each building is going to have a > dedicated box to act as the router. Now to complicate things, here is the > issue: We have a fourth building (D) that doesnt have LOS to A, but it is > very close to, and has LOS to C. Would it be possible to use an omni at C > instead of a uni and set up the routing at C so it will pass packets from D > to A, as well as route to the hosts at building C? It seems like it should > work, and do you think I am correct in setting up the router at C like: That should work, assuming C and A are close enough to have reachability with two omnis. If C and D are -very- -close- and A and C are -very- -far- then you could probably get away with C being a directional pointed to A, and enough should bleed out for reachability to D (?). > > ifconfig eth0 my_ip_address pointopoint gateway_address > route add -host gateway_address dev eth1 > route add -host first_client dev eth1 > route add -host second_client dev eth1 (and so on...) > ...plus > route add -host address_of_building_D_router dev eth1 Router C should look like.. route add -host router_A dev eth1 route add -host router_D dev eth1 # this could be -host or -net with a netmask specified. route add -host router_B gw router_A route add default gw router_A # also add a route for the local net at router_D route add -net router_D_localnet netmask D_localnet_netmask gw router_D Each host should have a 'dev' style route to hosts on the next hop, any host beond the next hop (i.e. B to C or D to A) should have a 'gw' statement to the next hop. > > Another thought, how do you think the kernel bridging code would work with > wireless (if at all)? Not too sure about bridging, never tried it. .. > Thanks so much in advance for any help and suggestions you may be able to > pass on. I really enjoyed your howto -- Not only is your project super > practical, it's way cool. Hope it all helps, sorry for taking a bit of time to respond! -- Greg Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Tue Feb 8 16:48:27 2000 -0800 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 16:48:27 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Nick <nick@cetnet.net> Subject: Re: Hey In-Reply-To: <02bc01bf6ceb$fd7ee750$d66bc5d0@n> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000208164455.12855E-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 320 On Tue, 1 Feb 2000, Nick wrote: > This is regading your wireless router docs > have you had any luck or tried with Wavelan equip? > they have a PCMCIA ISA card. and hen the pcmcia wavelan card plugs into it > id love you get 2 cards working or just 1 wavelan and one NIC.. maybe > you can help me.. i dont have the ability to compile modules.. > Thanks in advance I haven't played with the wavelan cards, we just got some new arlan cards and we are playing with them.. Need to smooze with some hardware vendors and see if I can get loaners to play with. Are you looking to do a WAN situation? Modules are fairly straight forward, just make sure you've got a compiler (GCC) installed and you've downloaded and installed your kernel source in /usr/src/linux. Usually the driver tarball will just build once that's done. If you can tell me your specific distribution I can give you more assistance. I'm most familiar with redhat but can fake knowledge of the others.. -- Greg Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Wed Feb 9 13:09:35 2000 -0800 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2000 13:09:30 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Edward W Gamble <Edward_Gamble@freddiemac.com> cc: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: Re: MBA Course Project In-Reply-To: <85256880.00518DDC.00@freddiemac.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000209125153.28504D-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 323 On Wed, 9 Feb 2000, Edward W Gamble wrote: > Hello, > I am taking a graduate school class as part of an MBA program. My > project group's assignment is to come up with an idea for a product to > sell to consumers and then create a detailed marketing plan. One idea > we had was to sell the concept of a wireless router for "smart home" > devices such as alarm systems, electronic equipment, etc. > > Has your company (or any other) looked into this idea? What are the pros and > cons of such a concept? > > Please confirm receipt of this message and let me know what you think. We > welcome any other related or unrelated ideas you may have for this project. > Thanks in advance for your help. Hello Eddie, I suppose you could do something like this using wireless technology, I will go over some of the cons I see with this idea: The technology may not be cost effective, i.e. if your selling a coffemaker for example your wireless technology may cost as much as the original unit doubling its price. You would have to deal with the FCC for a license, if you use publically available frequencies (900mhz, 2.4Ghz) then you end up crowding these frequencies as devices such as cordless phones or wireless LAN cards also use them. You could also face interference or security issues if others on your street had these devices. I would estimate that the data you would be transferring would be very limited and not that bandwidth intensive, so a wireless network would be overkill. I like the X10 methodology better. X10 is a system that sends control messages over the electrical wiring already installed in your house. Every device needs to have a 110V power feed to run anyway so it is much simpler to just piggyback data onto this connection. You cannot get high bandwidths out of this technology however the data requirements for home automation are very low. X10 also has wireless and infrared units so you can also use wireless sensors (motion, light) and remote controls. They sell plug units to control 'dumb' appliances such as lights to turn them on/off/dim. Their site can be found at www.x10.com; we use these systems in our home. X10 also interfaces with a PC, so you could as a possible product produce a low cost PC based smart management platform that would provide a web based interface for home automation management, email alerts on events, dialup notification of a monitoring service on a possible breakin... I'm sure you can come up with more possibilities; your the MBA after all. Hope this all helps! -- Greg Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From mtaht@picketwyre.com Fri Feb 11 08:57:26 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21500 for <wireless@rage.net>; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:57:24 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10844 for <wireless@rage.net>; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:57:23 -0800 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 08:57:23 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: wireless@rage.net Subject: Re: [Aironet] Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002110857100.10842-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 11527 Status: RO X-Status: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:30:43 +0100 From: Jean-Pierre Ebert <ebert@ee.tu-berlin.de> To: mtaht@picketwyre.com, aironet@enkidu.cse.ucsc.edu Subject: Re: [Aironet] Firmware/packet loss/802.11 Hello Mike and all, > A) Does the 4800 do link level error correction? Yes, as explained in other mails. Where is no Go-Back-N like stuff, but an immediate acknowledgement for every successfully transmitted data packet. Bye means of a missing ack (lost of data packet or ack) the card decides to retransmit the packet up to a max # of retries (see answer of next questions (B)). > B) what tunables would I use to address some of the packet loss? Over long > distances? There are basically four parameters to control for that purpose: - RTS-Threshold - Frag-Threshold - Retry-Count for short and long packets I will not go into every detail on the effects and reason of setting these parameters to a certain value. Just a few rules of thumb. These rules of thumb may be wrong in particular cases!: - RTS: use RTS, if you share your radio channel with more than 8 mobiles and (!) the mobiles generate a lot of load (aggregate load more than 20 %). In that case you see will see a high number of collisions. The use of RTS/CTS makes the collsion phases shorter -> performance improves. About 500Byte seems to be a good value for the RTS parameter in many cases. - Short/Long - Retries: Controled by the RTS/Parameter.: The parameter setting for somehow tricky. The problem here is a competition between retries on higher protocol layers (TCP) and the MAC retransmissions. Wrong settings of retries on MAC level may cause a bad TCP performance. Some measurements have shown, that a MAC retries should set to very small values (short retry up to 4, long retries up to 2) when using TCP. When using UDP you can increas the values, whereas you can spend some more retries for short retries. - Fragmentation Threshold: If you expirience a high packet error rate (faulty packets/all send packets) try to slightly increase your Fragmentation threshold. Start with the maximum value (2312 Byte Adhoc mode/ 1500 Byte ESS (there is probably an ethernet in the background)) and go down. 512 Byte seems to be a good value in most of the cases. If you use fragmentation you pay that in performance loss, since fragmentation adds overhead. This is (over-)traded off to a very good degree by the lower packet rate (if you see packet errors). In turn setting the Frag-Value to low may result in a very poor performance! (Check it out for your radio link. Ther is a tool called netperf, which is suitable for such parameter tests). - Xmit power: Use the highest value your card can afford. This might be not the best with a overall radion network few, but for WLANs we lack of a central cell planning capacity, so just try to improve the bit error rate by incease your transmit power as much as the card supports. Hope this clarifies a bit performance issues for your case. > E) Adhoc mode works. ESS doesn't. ? I know that statement the other way around! But both modi works! Try to harmonize the access point configuration with the ones of your NIC. Basically, the SSID, rates, modulation and working mode should be the same. Jean-Pierre From mtaht@picketwyre.com Fri Feb 11 10:36:33 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22457 for <wireless@rage.net>; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:36:29 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11264; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:36:03 -0800 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:36:03 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: Edward W Gamble <Edward_Gamble@freddiemac.com> cc: wireless@rage.net Subject: Re: MBA Course Project In-Reply-To: <85256880.00518DDC.00@freddiemac.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002110948360.10842-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 11530 Status: RO X-Status: Dear Edward: I do not believe that there is a viable market for tons of wireless devices in a home for the next 10 years or so. The Bluetooth "standard" is being designed by a bunch of yahoos that understand phones, but not networking. The cost per device is quite high, and will continue to stay high for at least the next 7-8 years. And the bandwidth is very low. I do see 802.11 2.4 Ghz wireless as a successful product to several other submarkets, I'll get into that at the end of this letter. I do believe there is a viable market for establishing a standard wired home network design for new home construction. Several major companies are trying to establish "home networking" standards built around electrical or phone wiring, and I think they are doomed to failure. What these companies fail to realize is the sheer amount of infrastructure required for a new networking medium to truly be successful. Most specifically, the standard needs to be non-proprietary. Millions of man-years are effectively invested in ethernet and TCP/ip, and there is little incentive for anyone to create or adopt a new standard, (or, for that matter, even upgrade to IP/v6). Cat5 ethernet cabling is inexpensive, good 100BaseT cards currently cost 29 dollars, and 10Mbit cards are 6 dollars. (10Mbit at the chip level is around $1.50 ). So I CAN see a heavily wired household having ethernet out to the fridge, the temp guage, the TIVO, the internet radio, and the household computers. In fact, that's what our home looks like and it's GREAT. :) What remains is to get architects and the construction industry to have a "standard" ethernet package for new home construction. Wiring a house properly for 100BaseT in every room would add less than 1k to the base cost of the home, a nice margin builder for the home builder and additional selling point. So that's one "product" - house plans, training, core products - that can be sold into the home construction industry and the architectural world - built on standards that will still be in place 20 years from now. Then you get into additional nice add-ons into this market - the hub... ups... or the household firewall/ip masquarading router for example - using one of these lets the entire house share a single ip address hookup to the internet, which drops the cost to 50 bucks a month or less for cable modem or ADSL in most areas. A firewall is really important if you want to be on the net full-time. Do you really want strangers hacking into your fridge? Household Email/Web server - get your email delivered to your local machine - why have the risk and liability requirements of having your personal email "out there" on the internet where it is unprotected by state and federal law? Firewire is likely to be the next digital television standard, the cabling is inexpensive but it is limited to 15 feet - but I could certainly see running some of that in addition to ethernet. And lastly, once more and more homes are well-networked - you finally get into a space where some even grander dreams are realizable. Our engineering driven company is looking for funding and professional management in any of the following four markets: Household Firewall/Wireless router - We've basically already built this device, but it costs too much in low manufactured volumes - there are other products in the same space that don't do as much and are not selling well. I view the core of the problem as the "tilt" of the internet towards giving away every possible thing for free in exchange for your eyeballs on the advertising screen. This is not a world I want to live in, but it would require some smart marketing to get people interested in paying for hardware that makes their internet experience safer, faster, better, or advertising free, Banner Blocking - See http://iab.rage.net - banner ads account for 80% of the bandwidth and time spent downloading pages from the internet. They are annoying as hell. And, with our software, easy to block out almost entirely. Intriguing question - how do you market something that is anti-marketing? My take on this product is to set up a lot of caching/filtering proxies on the internet (like akamai) and sell the service to 10s of thousands of customers - greg's is to package it up into the "household server" model and/or let ISPs manage the service for us. Embedded Voice Recognition - finally, household voice recognition is feasible in the next 3 years - "Jeeves, turn the lights on, please" - there are two very beta voice recognition products for linux that can now run on very low power/cost hardware - it's very exciting. Wireless Inter-neighborhood networking - Get rid of the phone company - run 2-11Mbit shared networking through a small neighborhood. Per station hw costs are 300-500 dollars, ongoing maintenence is close to 0 (we hope). Here, the webpadd makes sense in the home. And mp3 devices such as the www.empeg.com car player could be downloading music and digital radio from the 802.11 neighborhood net. A related idea to this one is boat harbors need a networking standard such as this one, worldwide, and setting up a business to provide harbor-wide networking would be a visionary project. Hope these ideas are interesting to you and you have some feedback for us. They are all released under the terms of the GNU Public License. :) ------ mike "Corporate America will own Linux only after they pry my cold, dead hands off the keyboard" - Davish On Wed, 9 Feb 2000, Edward W Gamble wrote: > > > Hello, > I am taking a graduate school class as part of an MBA program. My project > group's assignment is to come up with an idea for a product to sell to consumers > and then create a detailed marketing plan. One idea we had was to sell the > concept of a wireless router for "smart home" devices such as alarm systems, > electronic equipment, etc. > > Has your company (or any other) looked into this idea? What are the pros and > cons of such a concept? > > Please confirm receipt of this message and let me know what you think. We > welcome any other related or unrelated ideas you may have for this project. > Thanks in advance for your help. > > Eddie Gamble > Freddie Mac > (703) 918-5127 > > From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Fri Feb 11 11:33:22 2000 -0800 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:33:21 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: mtaht@picketwyre.com cc: hummer@hmmwv.net, hummer@www.frequencystandard.com, roomies@rage.net Subject: Re: the rebirth of offroad, rearranging services, etc In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002101825310.7754-100000@lugosi> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000211105931.22617A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 327 I don't like computers/networks much anymore. My new job is taking up what little amount of motivation I had left.. And if these new cards are 2.4Ghz who's to say they will be immune to the interference our current 2.4Ghz cards are encountering. I'm going to mail ricochet and perhaps I can find out what frequencies they are using.. BTW ipchains (linux 2.2 kernel) has traffic prioritizing (haven't tried it just read about it). So rather than restricting bandwidth to a certain rate it'll allow the traffic to flow freely till higher priority traffic arrives at which point the high priority traffic passes and the lower priority traffic waits. I'm certainly not mad at anyone regarding any sort of progress on the wireless side; I'm sorry I gave you that impression. As for this network redesign you mentioned it and I asked for a plan as to what these changes were and we'd all go over it till we were all satisifed.. Haven't heard anything about it untill this message. If you both have ideas about changing the network you'd like my opinion on (or that affect me) let me know. -- Greg I just hope I can sail off and retire before some lawer litigates me out of my rage.net domain name. On Thu, 10 Feb 2000 mtaht@picketwyre.com wrote: > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 20:51:45 -0800 (PST) > From: mtaht@picketwyre.com > To: hummer@hmmwv.net > Cc: hummer@www.frequencystandard.com, roomies@rage.net > Subject: the rebirth of offroad, rearranging services, etc > > > Everett: > > I'm going to do dinner and I'll be available after ten. This is a long > message that I hope makes some sense to everyone... I seek consensus and > enlightenment.... > > > on the subject of proxy machines - we had mentioned that a p/133 would > > be adequate to run squid/dns on www.frequencystandard.com - if I can > > get a system "up" with the CD-rom load, can you do the changes to have > > it start DNS and squid, then we can swap it out with the existing machine > > there and see how it runs? > > Well, as I recall you also have web services running on that machine, so > we need to copy the apache configuration(s) over unless we add full-on > NAT to the mix. How many of those are there? Any CGI's? Any other services > I need to worry about? > > > I have a very stable P/133 machine that would probably be ideal for this > > application. scsi, lan, etc. - I can stick a couple of 4G disks on it > > for cache on squid - you may have to help me mount them correctly and > > get squid configured for it - but if the proc isn't a bottleneck, then > > we should be off and running with it. It does have to run DNS though. > > OK. Sounds like a plan. Stable is my favorite word. And again, if the > choice were entirely up to me, I would run this fw/nat/masq box (nearly) > diskless, and put squid and webservers behind this NAT/masquaraded host. > And I'd get the box running, doing NAT, masq, etc, forwarding ports to > squid/apache - everything possible, entirely - for a > week of tests - within the current network - before cutting it over. My > goal would be to eliminate disk activity entirely after boot for this > P133. (The rest of this message is kinda about this) > > There's no real setup required for squid unless you have specific > requirements. Squid runs pretty much out of the box. It helps to tune it a > bit, but it "just works". Assuming we can resurrect offroad, all I have > to do is copy the squid conf file, change one symbolic link, run squid -X, > then poof! > > I have mostly been focused lately on beating out a future on the airolan > drivers for the 11Mbit card. Tenatively the driver from elmer is the one > that is going to be standard in the 2.2.15 kernel, so I've been beating on > that. I'm really unhappy about how it handles packet loss by default. And > the 802.11 code doesn't work at all... but it is maddeningly close to > working. > > Note that my ultimate dream for the hmmwv network design would be to have > mirrored all services that transparently failed over, and that I don't > have a canned way to do that for squid. Similarly I have not taken the > time to muck with the linux/NAT issue - I have the wireless gear loaned to > me for a limited period and I don't want to have to buy gear that doesn't > work - and I love working in C and on device drivers rather than > sysadmining, which is a task I grew weary of 5 or 6 years ago. > > I have a character flaw in that it's difficult to say no to > someone outright, even when I have a full day of things already planned. > If I were a woman, I'd be pregnant all the time. I have generally managed > to hide behind bosses, secretaries and girlfriends so I don't have to play > the bad guy. > > So first I apologise for being evasive saturday and wednesday. > > I guess what I'm building up to is that I generally charge 125 bucks an > hour for building network services, greg charges 95. We don't share in > your profits (or losses, or risk, I know) and we cover half your physical > network costs. I've always thought this an excellent deal, 1Mbit from > netcom would cost us double this and wouldn't let us experiement with our > own hardware. But I would have had some recourse when our connectivity > went to hell two months ago. Even though it's not your fault. > > It's taken me this long to gather the funds and the time and the > technology and the motivation together to try and address the ongoing > wireless problems, and for all I know, I'm on the wrong track. Greg and > Michelle for some reason seem to be mad at me for taking so long to make a > start on this problem. > > The accountant side of me chirps up every time I spend more than a few > hours helping you out on your network on stuff that is not of direct > interest to my household's connectivity. The virtual ledger I keep on this > sort of stuff is sadly negative this month. > > Now I am generally glad to help you out, one because I genuinely enjoy > your enthusiasm and company, two because I've generally been able to > convince my subconcious that it's "our" network, three because unlike > most the people I work with you tend to retain things I tell you, which is > a real joy!, and four because greg isn't willing to do it anymore, even > though he's the real sysadmin of the household, because he's had > bitter arguments with you in several cases where I've had to step in and > preach patience and tolerance to both sides until the flames subsided. > > And lastly, I feel something close to a physical pain when part of a > network I'm on is not functioning perfectly. I feel the network as part of > my physical body, almost. I've felt this way about networks going back to > my very first uucp connection back in the early 80s, when my email address > was ..!uunet!sir-alan!aca-one!aca-two!miket - when it was possible to > exchange email with almost the entire real internet community - but it > took weeks for the email to propigate - and we were sometimes painfully > aware that we were pioneers sharing in the birth of a new world. > > And it really does all come down to sharing. I'm a big believer in finding > ways for people to work together on common goals. I wanted the internet to > continue on as it was in the old days - everyone sharing bandwidth for the > common good - and with our network as it is - it reminds me of the good > old days. I wish we could bring more people onto it and establish a viable > alternate medium for growth we could all be happy about. (We all fought > like cats in the old days, too, but ultimately consensus arose). I really > think it is possible to build a new, wireless internet that everyone can > use, a fast efficient network, one that is better than what the big > conglomorates are building for us... and I'm saddened that we haven't made > more progress on that in the past year.... > > In many cases our association has been a fair trade - I've learned a lot > from you about electricity and wireless communications, and I think you've > learned a lot from me about internetworking and os'es from me, (and I've > learned a lot from greg about LDAP and sysadmining in general). A positive > sum game. > > But sometimes I feel my contributions are undervalued. (and since I'm > completely carless these days, I've been kind of hoping that a roomate > would volunteer to make a dump run - so I'm not just feeling undervalued > by you, lately - I got them semi-unemployed blues today, now, baby. :() > > > You may have noticed some reluctance in me to touch your network since > offroad crashed. > > I *loathe* losing even a day's work to flaky post-dumpster hardware. The > accountant part of my soul says "well, there's a grand of my time down the > drain"... > > In my last "day" jobs I have generally been able to specify top of the > line hardware that met my personal standards for reliability and > performance. These are now quite high - routers/firewalls need to be able > to stay up a minimum of 2 years, databases 6 months, vital services such > as DNS and proxy caches, 1 year, other core services such as fileserving > and password automation, 3 months... In a pinch I've settled for 3 months > or less, and always regretted it. 30 days is the lowest bearable limit for > any service and god help you if more than one service is this unreliable. > > I am happy and comfortable with Linux on quality hardware - Linux has > exceeded all my standards for software in the last year - **Every** server > problem I've had to recover from has been entirely hardware failure (or > pilot error). (yp is the one service I don't trust on nearly any OS) > > I do not doubt that HP makes quality hardware. In fact, it's some of > the most overdesigned, robust hardware I've ever seen. But I will always > be nervous about using dumpster'd hardware for mission critical > activities. > > I'm really glad I've managed to talk you down from the idea of piling > every possible service onto one big fat hefty SMP box in the past few > weeks. > > And it sounds like I've almost got you doing this design in a way I can > live with. Now to get greg and michelle on board so they buy into the > future design of the network and can contribute what they're best at, > which probably involves more compromises and politics and haggling, and > they don't glare at me when something is fucked up. > > 1) Another issue is saturdays are the day that I generally turn all the > computers off and leave the house and just don't do geek things. > Wednesdays it's trek. The other five days I do work work. For most of the > last week I've been really focused on some C driver code to the exclusion > of all else. It doesn't pay any money either, but it's in my general skill > set and far more fun than building and configuring internet services, > again. > > So I'm in a mode, right now, where all I want to do is keep working on > this damn driver in the hope of getting my connection down to you back up > to at least 1Mbit (currently hovering at around 6k), and you are wanting > me to replace a core component of your network with a drop-in replacement > that does all this extra stuff that I really don't care about right now > > and I can't get greg interested in doing any work on your project at all > unless it got done entirely his way, which would involve cisco routers, > linux firewalls, servers safely behind the firewalls, etc > > and the fact of the matter is that I don't disagree with him - that method > is the minimum person-time, maximum reliability and flexibility path - a > proven, low risk, low maintenence path - > > I like my compromise of doing firewall/NAT/masq under linux, it meets a > minimum cost, maximum flexibility, reasonable person-time, good > reliability goal, but with a touch of bleeding edge research that is scary > > and your original plan was 0 cost, maximum flexibility, large person time, > and a poor reliability goal. > > looked at it one way, it's five to ten grand worth of hardware you'd have > to buy + a few hours of time to donate, looked at my way, it's one more > piece of gear you'd have to find and a few grand of time we'd have to > donate, looked at it the original way, it's five to twenty grand of time > greg and/or I would have to donate, in order to get a poor result. > > so in sort of laying bare my state of mind on where everything is I hope > for more of us to achieve enlightenment. > > > Do you know if there's a way internal to apache to throttle it's rate > > of delivering http bandwidth (i.e. someone has a 9.1 MB .avi file, and > > we setup apache so no more than 50K/sec goes to http requests, avoiding > > people crunching the 'pipe wile watching movies?) - one of my "on site" > > folks has a whole bunch of dumbshit .avi's on his homepage - the apache > > logs indicate that people click on them, then stop the transfer mid way > > through (4.5 MB) after discovering how dumb it is - which wastes nearly > > 100% of the pipe when they are on a cable modem. He gets alot of hits > > like this. The error log is all full of hits to his avi files that people > > click on then stop. > > Yes there is a throttling module for apache. There are tons of modules for > apache. Also, the shaping module works on redhat 6.1. > > The other answer is to tell him to stick his big files on a service > (plenty of free web services out there) that has the bandwidth to support > them. I'm against big files in general. > > > > > My interim fix was to set the def-gw on that machine to the 50/mo 128K > > outbound line - which had the net effect of throttling those requests to > > 128K, and keeping the traffic off the 384K line we use. Once the new > > proxy is setup, however, his traffic will be back on the main net, since > > the 50/mo 128K IP address will have to be given to the new P/133 proxy > > system. (http requests to www.hmmwv.net are routed out www.frequencystandard > > com right now since it's multi-homed, with that being the def-gw) > > > > The other option might be to set the www.hmmwv.net system up so that it's > > default g-w is the *host* address inside my class c of the proxy system, > > then let the proxy machine run gated/routed/whatever-d and pass the traffic > > through it to the outside world - sorta like nat - but outa my league - > > hopefully into yours. My goal is to keep the "freebie" shit from maxing > > out the line here - once someone puts 9MB files up for d/l on their webpage, > > all hope is lost - some dipshit will inevitably click and want to watch > > a dumb-ass .avi, and will d/l at the maximum rate to their ISP's proxy > > even if they are on a 56K modem (I've watched this happen as well - some > > dialup guy hits the page, but the file goes out at maximum line speed - > > to the isp proxy machine instead) > > > > Worst case scenario - I could move his webpage to www.f-s.com - and put a > > "moved here" link on his old page. Hate to do that though, since he'd need > > ftp access into the new machine. > > > > I can only loose less - never win. > > > > EFB (home now btw... took off early) > > > > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Fri Feb 11 11:51:11 2000 -0800 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:51:10 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: support@ricochet.net cc: wireless@rage.net Subject: Frequencies for new 128K service. Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000211113325.22617B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 328 Hello, I would like some technical information regarding your 128K service you are rolling out. We live in the Santa Cruz mountains and our sole method of internet connectivity is a homebuilt 2.4Ghz wireless link down into Santa Clara. Over the last few months we've noticed our performance slowly degrade; this month it has become unbearibly slow. One of the possibile causes is the rollout of your new 128K serivce, which uses the 2.4Ghz band... It may be interfering with our link. Would it be possible for you to send us a list of frequencies you are using in the 2.4Ghz band so that we can change our systems to avoid use of these frequencies? If you do not have this information would it be possible for you to put us in touch with some of the engineers who do? I would appreciate any help you can give us in this area! BTW if you'd like to see what we've done see http://www.rage.net/wireless/ . It may be a touch slow, for the reasons I outlined above. Thanks! -- Greg Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From Support@Metricom.com Fri Feb 11 11:58:45 2000 Return-Path: <Support@Metricom.com> Received: from ocean.metricom.com (ocean.metricom.com [204.154.204.233]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23301 for <greg@rage.net>; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:58:45 -0800 Received: by ocean.metricom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <1GC6QP33>; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:55:16 -0800 Message-ID: <8AB74F1DDD4DD311A4CB0004AC4CA9DAE86FF1@ocean.metricom.com> From: Support <Support@Metricom.com> To: "'Greg Retkowski'" <greg@rage.net> Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:55:15 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Keywords: X-UID: 11534 Status: RO X-Status: A Hi Greg, Here is an FAQ that may answer some of your questions. When will Ricochet2 coverage be in the SF bay area? We expect to roll out Ricochet 128 kbps service in multiple waves, culminating in over 40 metropolitan areas by mid-2001. While we have not yet published city names, we plan for the current service areas to be included in the initial deployment beginning in the second half of this year. This would mean commercial availability by the middle of next year (2000) Does that mean (the Bay Area) (Seattle) (Washington, DC) will be getting it first? We have not yet determined the order in which cities will be deployed. What are Metricom's deployment plans for additional metropolitan areas in the United States? Metricom has begun Right-of-Way acquisition activities in 11 major U. S. metropolitan areas. They are: Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Houston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Phoenix, New York, and San Diego. What will the new modem cost and can I trade in my current modem? We are currently talking with various potential manufacturers, and will announce pricing with the commercial availability of the next generation modem and service -- we expect the modem will cost between $249 and $349. We are also in the process of developing an upgrade program for current Ricochet customers, and will provide that information as soon as it is available. Will I be able to use my existing modem on the new Ricochet2 network? Yes. In fact, current modems will experience an increase in performance with Ricochet2 of up to double over the current Ricochet service. However, to experience the full performance of Ricochet2 customers will need to purchase the next generation modem. Will there be a price increase on my Existing Ricochet Service to get the higher speeds from the Ricochet2 Network? Pricing for Ricochet2 will not be announced until the time of commercial availability; however, the monthly fee will be higher for 128 kbps service than it is for our current 28.8 kbps Ricochet. Will I be able to connect up to my USB port? Our implementation requires a Windows98 USB upgrade from Microsoft, and we do expect to have USB support when Ricochet2 becomes commercially available. Will USB work on current Ricochet devices? No, the current modems were not designed to support USB. Will a PC card modem be available? We are currently investigating a variety of form factors for Ricochet2 devices, and expect this to be an ongoing process as the service evolves. Regards, Ricochet Technical Support #814 > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Retkowski [SMTP:greg@rage.net] > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 11:51 AM > To: support@ricochet.net > Cc: wireless@rage.net > Subject: Frequencies for new 128K service. > > Hello, > I would like some technical information regarding your 128K service you > are rolling out. > > We live in the Santa Cruz mountains and our sole method of internet > connectivity is a homebuilt 2.4Ghz wireless link down into Santa Clara. > Over the last few months we've noticed our performance slowly degrade; > this month it has become unbearibly slow. > > One of the possibile causes is the rollout of your new 128K serivce, > which uses the 2.4Ghz band... It may be interfering with our link. > > Would it be possible for you to send us a list of frequencies you are > using in the 2.4Ghz band so that we can change our systems to avoid use of > these frequencies? If you do not have this information would it be > possible for you to put us in touch with some of the engineers who do? I > would appreciate any help you can give us in this area! BTW if you'd like > to see what we've done see http://www.rage.net/wireless/ . It may be a > touch slow, for the reasons I outlined above. Thanks! > > -- Greg > > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net > Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Fri Feb 11 12:06:04 2000 -0800 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:06:04 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Support <Support@Metricom.com> Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. In-Reply-To: <8AB74F1DDD4DD311A4CB0004AC4CA9DAE86FF1@ocean.metricom.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000211120342.22617C-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 329 This didn't help. That FAQ did not answer any of my questions. Perhaps next time you can actually _read_ my message before answering. Now, can I please get a sane response or what? My original message is at the bottom of your form letter. -- Greg On Fri, 11 Feb 2000, Support wrote: > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:55:15 -0800 > From: Support <Support@Metricom.com> > To: 'Greg Retkowski' <greg@rage.net> > Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. > > Hi Greg, > > Here is an FAQ that may answer some of your questions. > > When will Ricochet2 coverage be in the SF bay area? > > We expect to roll out Ricochet 128 kbps service in multiple waves, > culminating in over 40 metropolitan areas by mid-2001. While we have not > yet published city names, we plan for the current service areas to be > included in the initial deployment beginning in the second half of this > year. This would mean commercial availability by the middle of next year > (2000) > > Does that mean (the Bay Area) (Seattle) (Washington, DC) will be getting it > first? > > We have not yet determined the order in which cities will be deployed. > > What are Metricom's deployment plans for additional metropolitan areas in > the United States? > > Metricom has begun Right-of-Way acquisition activities in 11 major U. S. > metropolitan areas. They are: Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, > Houston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Phoenix, New York, and San Diego. > > What will the new modem cost and can I trade in my current modem? > > We are currently talking with various potential manufacturers, and will > announce pricing with the commercial availability of the next generation > modem and service -- we expect the modem will cost between $249 and $349. > We are also in the process of developing an upgrade program for current > Ricochet customers, and will provide that information as soon as it is > available. > > Will I be able to use my existing modem on the new Ricochet2 network? > > Yes. In fact, current modems will experience an increase in performance > with Ricochet2 of up to double over the current Ricochet service. However, > to experience the full performance of Ricochet2 customers will need to > purchase the next generation modem. > > > Will there be a price increase on my Existing Ricochet Service to get the > higher speeds from the Ricochet2 Network? > > Pricing for Ricochet2 will not be announced until the time of commercial > availability; however, the monthly fee will be higher for 128 kbps service > than it is for our current 28.8 kbps Ricochet. > > Will I be able to connect up to my USB port? > > Our implementation requires a Windows98 USB upgrade from Microsoft, and we > do expect to have USB support when Ricochet2 becomes commercially available. > > > Will USB work on current Ricochet devices? > > No, the current modems were not designed to support USB. > > Will a PC card modem be available? > > We are currently investigating a variety of form factors for Ricochet2 > devices, and expect this to be an ongoing process as the service evolves. > > Regards, > > Ricochet Technical Support > #814 > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Greg Retkowski [SMTP:greg@rage.net] > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 11:51 AM > > To: support@ricochet.net > > Cc: wireless@rage.net > > Subject: Frequencies for new 128K service. > > > > Hello, > > I would like some technical information regarding your 128K service you > > are rolling out. > > > > We live in the Santa Cruz mountains and our sole method of internet > > connectivity is a homebuilt 2.4Ghz wireless link down into Santa Clara. > > Over the last few months we've noticed our performance slowly degrade; > > this month it has become unbearibly slow. > > > > One of the possibile causes is the rollout of your new 128K serivce, > > which uses the 2.4Ghz band... It may be interfering with our link. > > > > Would it be possible for you to send us a list of frequencies you are > > using in the 2.4Ghz band so that we can change our systems to avoid use of > > these frequencies? If you do not have this information would it be > > possible for you to put us in touch with some of the engineers who do? I > > would appreciate any help you can give us in this area! BTW if you'd like > > to see what we've done see http://www.rage.net/wireless/ . It may be a > > touch slow, for the reasons I outlined above. Thanks! > > > > -- Greg > > > > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net > > Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From hummer@www.frequencystandard.com Fri Feb 11 17:14:13 2000 Return-Path: <hummer@www.frequencystandard.com> Received: from www.frequencystandard.com (hummer@www.hmmwv.net [207.104.7.33]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26426 for <greg@rage.net>; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:14:12 -0800 Received: (from hummer@localhost) by www.frequencystandard.com (8.8.6 (PHNE_14041)/8.7.1) id RAA18937; Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:15:04 -0800 (PST) From: hummer@hmmwv.net Message-Id: <200002120115.RAA18937@www.frequencystandard.com> Subject: Re: Frequencies for new 128K service. To: greg@rage.net Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 17:15:04 PST Cc: mtaht@picketwyre.com In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000211113325.22617B-100000@screamingslave.rage.net>; from "Greg Retkowski" at Feb 11, 100 11:51 am X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.4] X-Keywords: X-UID: 11537 Status: RO X-Status: Greg - metricom/ricochet can not publically admit they are interfering with anyone else's service- it's part of the terms of their license that they not interfere - if they were to send you an email saying, "oh, yes, that's us allright" then they might as well go out of business cuz the fcc can yank it if A - it's proven that they are the cause, or B- they admit to causing problems. Consequently, they'll blame (or attempt to, if they even do reply to your email, which is doubtful) everthing *but* them. (i.e. your microwave oven, your neighbor's , etc) Second - as to the frequencies they use - the answer is yes. All of them. They spread across the entire 2.4 G band - there is no safe haven from ricochet in either 900 or 2.4 G - we've seen the same problem dealing with the police body TV transmitters that their undercover det's use - if the undercover vehicle is parked under a ricochet equipped tele-pole - then their body video camera gives a really poor result (too poor to be used in court in fact) due to the packet bursts over all the frequencies. We had to move their camera frequency out of the "ISM" public band to a safe place where they wouldn't suffer from ricochet - unfortunately, it ain't exactly legal to xmit TV there - but hey - who's gonna know! This is why I mentioned to mike the possibility of moving the freq of the aironet cards outside of the "normal" 2.4 g band - the cop cam xmitts with 1 W - the aironet, 0.1W, directional - it's so unlikely to ever be detected by anyone that i wouldn't be concerned with it in the least. It's your only bet to get away from metricom - they've staked a claim on the 900 and 2.4 freqs that is pretty strong. > > Hello, > I would like some technical information regarding your 128K service you > are rolling out. > > We live in the Santa Cruz mountains and our sole method of internet > connectivity is a homebuilt 2.4Ghz wireless link down into Santa Clara. > Over the last few months we've noticed our performance slowly degrade; > this month it has become unbearibly slow. > > One of the possibile causes is the rollout of your new 128K serivce, > which uses the 2.4Ghz band... It may be interfering with our link. > > Would it be possible for you to send us a list of frequencies you are > using in the 2.4Ghz band so that we can change our systems to avoid use of > these frequencies? If you do not have this information would it be > possible for you to put us in touch with some of the engineers who do? I > would appreciate any help you can give us in this area! BTW if you'd like > to see what we've done see http://www.rage.net/wireless/ . It may be a > touch slow, for the reasons I outlined above. Thanks! > > -- Greg > > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net > Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ > > From mtaht@picketwyre.com Tue Feb 15 10:25:02 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18120 for <wireless@rage.net>; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:24:44 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04830 for <wireless@rage.net>; Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:24:43 -0800 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 10:24:43 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: wireless@rage.net Subject: Aironet digest, Vol 1 #69 - 8 msgs (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002151023460.4602-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 11735 Status: RO X-Status: this list has been fasinating - the wireless stuff has come a long way in the last year.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 06:52:56 -0800 From: aironet-admin@csl.cse.ucsc.edu Reply-To: aironet@csl.cse.ucsc.edu To: aironet@enkidu.cse.ucsc.edu Subject: Aironet digest, Vol 1 #69 - 8 msgs Send Aironet mailing list submissions to aironet@csl.cse.ucsc.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the web, visit http://csl.cse.ucsc.edu/mailman/listinfo/aironet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aironet-request@csl.cse.ucsc.edu You can reach the person managing the list at aironet-admin@csl.cse.ucsc.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Aironet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) (Jean Tourrilhes) 2. Re: Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) (Jean Tourrilhes) 3. Re: Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) (Jean Tourrilhes) 4. Re: Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) (Jean Tourrilhes) 5. Re: Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) (Gavin D Holland) 6. Re: Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) (Elmer Joandi) 7. Re: Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) (Jean Tourrilhes) 8. Re: airo.o loads but does not find anything. help! (Martins Medens) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:26:04 -0800 From: Jean Tourrilhes <jt@bougret.hpl.hp.com> To: Elmer Joandi <elmer@ylenurme.ee> Cc: aironet@enkidu.cse.ucsc.edu, wireless@samba.org Subject: Re: [Aironet] Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) On Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 03:25:56PM +0200, Elmer Joandi wrote: > > Ahh, about that 25 km link, if you take interest. Elmer : your setups are always interesting and your experience invaluable (for me, I'm doing only LANs). I'm always amazed by all the things you describe. Maybe you should start the Elmer howto ;-) By the way, have you set up a web page for your Aironet 802.11 driver ? > elmer. By the way, I didn't had time to look into Wireless Extensions for the Aironet. I was busy on IrDA. Sorry... Jean --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:53:35 -0800 From: Jean Tourrilhes <jt@bougret.hpl.hp.com> To: Gavin D Holland <gholland@cs.tamu.edu> Cc: aironet@enkidu.cse.ucsc.edu, wireless@samba.org Subject: Re: [Aironet] Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) On Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 04:35:46PM -0600, Gavin D Holland wrote: > Jean, > > > By the way, I didn't had time to look into Wireless Extensions > >for the Aironet. I was busy on IrDA. Sorry... > > What extensions are you referring to? I spent time at MS Research > over the summer hacking on the Aironet driver. If I can swing an > NDA with Aironet, perhaps I can help out. No, no, you don't need a NDA with Aironet, it's in fact a rather quick and trivial job (one week end), but nobody is doing it so I have to find some time. It would be mostly a copy-paste my code from the Wavelan IEEE driver and after plugging the parameters correctly. 4 years ago, I've defined a standard API for Linux to configure and extract stats from Wireless devices. The beauty of it is as it is a *standard* api, you can build wireless aware applications that work across all Wireless LANs. To give you an example : let's imagine that every Etherent driver had it's one way to set up the IP address. For 3Com drivers, it would be a module parameter "3com-IPaddress", for Intel drivers it would be a /proc entry "/proc/driver/intel/IPv4" and for Digital a specific program "setIPaddress". Imagine the disaster... It's the same for Wireless : all devices have channel, ESSID (network name), so why is it not configured the same ? All device have signal strength, so why extracting this value is not standard ? Let's say you want to do a graphic signal monitor that is dockable. Let's say that there is 4 different windows manager (Fvwm, AfterStep, Gnome and KDE), and there is 4 Wireless LANs (Wavelan, Aironet, WebGear, Proxim). So, you have to build 4x4 = 64 applications so that everybody is happy. So, Wireless Extension is a flexible API that take care of that, provide the most common and useful parameters and that can be provided by drivers alongside a more complete and private API (Wireless Extension will never be able to cover all the variety of implementations out there). However, the downside is that all the driver must implement this API. Currently, the Aironet is one of the few not implementing it, and as I don't have the hardware, it's not too high on my priority list. If you want more info on the subject, look on my web site. And if you need help, you know my e-mail address... > -Gavin Regards, Jean --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:58:23 -0800 From: Jean Tourrilhes <jt@bougret.hpl.hp.com> To: Jean-Pierre Ebert <ebert@ee.tu-berlin.de> Cc: aironet@enkidu.cse.ucsc.edu Subject: Re: [Aironet] Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) On Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 11:00:04AM +0100, Jean-Pierre Ebert wrote: > Hi Jean, hi all, Hi again... > > From my simulations, 250 B seems like a good threshold in > > general. However, if you have bulk TCP/IP traffic, it doesn't matter > > at all, because packets size are only 40 B and 1500 B (so you just > > need to set it somewhere in between). > > My papers are at : > > http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Papers/ > > Note that RTS/CTS is only a performance issue, it won't affect > > the probability of getting packet dropped (which is the problem we > > want to address). > > Jean, please... try some measurements and less feelings. You will > probably find out that 250 Byte is definitely not a good > value. You sacrify a lot of bandwidth for RTS/CTS-Overhead. I made > measurements and simulations, both of > them show that you can either switch it off or set it to a value larger > than 500 Byte. Hum. You can't accuse me of not having done any simulations on this point. I did. A lot. Extensively. I've got a few *gigabytes* of Bones simulations. And with a uniform distribution of packet size between two nodes, with 802.11 FH at 2 Mb/s, the optimum is closer to 250 B. I can show you the curves. However, I'm willing to admit that, at 11 Mb/s, because the payload is shorter in term of time (but not the RTS/CTS which are still transmitted at 1 Mb/s), maybe the threshold is 500 B. That would make sense. However, you miss totally the point that with bulk TCP/IP traffic (which is more like reality), it doesn't matter much, as long as it is between 40 B and 1500 B, and I stand by that. And you miss also that it won't improve on your rate loss probability. Bah... > > But, probably you don't care much about my gut feelings ;-) > > I've got quite a lot of experience with the old Lucent > > Wavelan, which didn't had any MAC level transmission. On the good > > days, the performance was incredible, I've managed many time to get > > 1.75 Mb/s sustained (10s) between 2 Linux nodes. No other 2 Mb/s card > > that I know can go that fast. > > However, the downside is that the performance is flickery, and > > if you move a few meters away you suddenly drop is the 200 kb/s > > range. Not that great... > > > Now Lucent has IEEE802.11 devices (immediate acknowledgements), so this > bears some > discrepancies with TCP acks. Read carefully please ! I'm talking of the old Wavelan, the one without MAC level ack (Ethernet controller on top of the radio). I'm perfectly aware of the 802.11 version, but that's another beast. > The problem are the timeout timer in TCP and MAC. I don't want to go in > lengthy deatils. > Whoever is interested in that topic should read: > > Caceres, Iftode: The effects of Mobility on Reliable Transport > Protocols, in Proc. of the 14th > Intl. Conf. on Distributed Comp. Sys., pp. 14-20, Jul. 1994 > > or > > A. DeSimone, Chuag, Yue, Throughput Performance of Transport-Layer > Protocols over Wireless LANs, in Proc. of Globecom'93, Dec. The *BIG* problem of those papers are outdated with regards to the hardware we are talking about, because they don't consider MAC level retransmissions. Without MAC level retransmission, you would reach their conclusions (even though I much prefer SNOOP to Split-TCP). With MAC level retransmissions, the conclusion might be different. By the way, SNOOP is a form of MAC level retransmission, and their paper shows that it out-perform other solutions. Of course, with 802.11 MAC acs, we shouldn't need SNOOP any more. > You will also find some papers on WLANs, MAC and performance topics at > my Web site and websites of my colleaques. URL please ? > Jean-Pierre Have fun... Jean P.S. : By the way, are you french ? I am... --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:11:35 -0800 From: Jean Tourrilhes <jt@bougret.hpl.hp.com> To: Gavin D Holland <gholland@cs.tamu.edu> Cc: aironet@enkidu.cse.ucsc.edu, wireless@samba.org Subject: Re: [Aironet] Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) On Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 04:59:02PM -0600, Gavin D Holland wrote: > What a coincidence. As a side-effect of our research, I put together > a proposal for NDIS extensions to do the same. Finding the common ground > was the hard part, though, as I'm sure you have already dealt with. He, he, I started 4 years ago, so I had quite a head start ;-) In fact, I've been talking of this API with people from Microsoft (Victor Bahl) about my API when I was doing SWAP, so I bet they didn't think of it on their own. > I can't go into the details of my work (MS confidential), but I would > love to see your solution. No everything is perfect, but please look at it. See at : http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/Tools.html http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/Linux.Wireless.Extensions.html It has been evolving quite a bit since the initial paper... If you want to implement it for the Aironet to really try it out, I could send you the latest Wavelan code... > I would also like to discuss potentially other extensions of such > work to diverse architectures, like Bluetooth or HomeRF. HomeRF has been designed with Wireless extensions in mind from the start, and guess why. Actually, I reduced the network ID from initial 48 bits to 24 bits so that I would not need to change Wireless Extensions API (no comment ;-). So, if Proxim didn't screw up SWAP, it should be a breeze... BlueTooth is another matter. It doesn't look like a Wireless LAN, it doesn't act like a Wireless LAN (but more like a Wireless USB). This one is likely to give trouble. > I looked into this at some length and feel that this can be > done as well. Have you worked on that? I may look into BlueTooth when there is a stack available for Linux, Iprefer to do things with concrete data, because the spec, despite its huge size, doesn't indicate how the implementation will behave. I'll wait... > -Gavin Regards, Jean --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Gavin D Holland <gholland@cs.tamu.edu> Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:10:51 -0600 (CST) To: jt@bougret.hpl.hp.com Subject: Re: [Aironet] Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) Cc: aironet@enkidu.cse.ucsc.edu > No everything is perfect, but please look at it. See at : > http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/Tools.html > http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/Linux.Wireless.Extensions.html > It has been evolving quite a bit since the initial paper... > If you want to implement it for the Aironet to really try it >out, I could send you the latest Wavelan code... Sure, looking at your site it seems simple enough. I'm currently pushing a deadline, but I'll take a crack at it once that's passed. > BlueTooth is another matter. It doesn't look like a Wireless >LAN, it doesn't act like a Wireless LAN (but more like a Wireless >USB). This one is likely to give trouble. I didn't say it would be easy, just doable. ;) Ignoring scatternets for the time-being, I think the simple master/slave network is not too far from PCF, and all the general things like link stats, performance stats, channel selection, etc. are still applicable. However, since I don't have any BT hardware (*donations accepted*) it is a tough call. It all really depends on how much is pushed into firmware. Regardless, I think there are enough similiarities to at least warrant a look. Now, how useful such functionality would be, remains to be seen. > I may look into BlueTooth when there is a stack available for >Linux, Iprefer to do things with concrete data, because the spec, >despite its huge size, doesn't indicate how the implementation will >behave. I'll wait... I haven't popped over to a Linux site for a while. Is there currently work underway on a Bluetooth stack? If so, on who's hardware? -Gavin --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 04:20:09 +0200 (EET) From: Elmer Joandi <elmer@ylenurme.ee> To: Jean Tourrilhes <jt@bougret.hpl.hp.com> cc: aironet@enkidu.cse.ucsc.edu, wireless@samba.org Subject: Re: [Aironet] Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) On Mon, 14 Feb 2000, Jean Tourrilhes wrote: > Elmer : your setups are always interesting and your experience > invaluable (for me, I'm doing only LANs). I'm always amazed by all the > things you describe. Maybe you should start the Elmer howto ;-) maybe, I was in ham radio for longer, there I was first wondering a lot why they are some bit suspicious on my real name... But, I am not the only hobbist as you know, in our country there is in magnitude of 500 links per 1.5M capita on such technology(mostly old wavelan, arlan or 802.11 pieces). More eastwards, in russia, they are even more popular. Currently I am providing internet here for 150 computers myself via 10 links and never got a point why to switch to telecom wire. By ETSI regulations 25km link works on rural areas and 15km links are very usable. US regulations allow 10x of ETSI EIRP So such a LAN technology on WAN is and will be, because no telecom will plough 25km of fiberoptic between 2 villages 25km apart and pure desert between for 1500$ for 10 potential users. (to continue that 25km link - tested with 1mW , anything more than usual ping causes link loss, ping ranges from 30 - 8000 msec, with 5mW it was stable under load) > By the way, have you set up a web page for your Aironet 802.11 > driver ? Nop, that was one thing - never liked that. I decided to release to kernel only and be self-explanatory. User support is a terrible thing, if you feel like obligated to do it. If code is in kernel then users trust (do or must) enough so they will support it themselves as much as needed). I found that releasing to kernel main source tree is incredible saving in time if to release GPL. There are explanations in kernel configure options dialog and the whole drivers/net/aironet4500_rid.c is human-readable table. Now there is even less point in it because to hold up two different pages and support-list would be completely weird. Another thing, for standard kernel Ben's driver is maybe better option as it is a way smaller and nicer... but I suspect that for next year or so there will still be more long than short distance aironet linux users and those are sysops who can look into kernel Documentation. And afterall, it is Aironets job to provide support, at least 90% of aironet products run on linux and bsd in eastern europe, they should move themselves too a bit and organize/provide support. Wireless extentsions: To my eyes these are data and nowadays, when linux goes to desktops, there should be more generic interface to them, not only connected to wireless but more general, about SNMP mib abstraction level. For aironet, there are about Nx10^2 of them and there is no other way to manage to get all of them at user knees. Unfortunately sysctl+proc is a bloat compared to what it provides. But anyone is free to implement wireless extentsions (all neccessary data is on aironet4500_rid.c, reading examples in aironet4500_proc.c with very long comments pasted from aironets manual) and I am very willing to test them on my variety of testing hardware here. It is a way harder for me to handcraft it on kernel level than it is for userspace level to parse /proc/sys/..., When Linux kernel has about 1000 drivers in it, there just should be found a bit more generic interface. Statically coding meta-data into kernellevel code was good idea few years ago, but not anymore, IMnsHO. Layer between device and driver level: there are for ISPs immediate needs from that layer: 1. wireless bridging and AP ( together with multicast pruning :) ) 2. getting tos,QoS and other such layers-levels info into numRetries, useRTS, waitTxAck level options on tx and per node stats/filtering on rx. Last point recalled me multicast. Has anyone had any experience with 4800 and multicast audio/vide feed ? At least 655-630-655 is terrible. Unusable for client-side upload. Download is most part fine, 256kbps video starts somewhat jamming the network. But, however small the mcast audio upstream is, from node-to-node on single AP, they just kill each other and the network for themselves(talking about condidion where nodes dont see each other at all). I was looking trough amd API, their card has nicely just different queue for mcast but not much more told. About aironet, 802.11, 4800, do they have some number of kbps that there will be uploaded no problems ? elmer. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:33:32 -0800 From: Jean Tourrilhes <jt@bougret.hpl.hp.com> To: Elmer Joandi <elmer@ylenurme.ee> Cc: aironet@enkidu.cse.ucsc.edu Subject: Re: [Aironet] Re : Firmware/packet loss/802.11 (long) On Tue, Feb 15, 2000 at 04:20:09AM +0200, Elmer Joandi wrote: > > maybe, I was in ham radio for longer, there I was first wondering a lot > why they are some bit suspicious on my real name... ;-) > But, I am not the only hobbist as you know, in our country there is in > magnitude of > 500 links per 1.5M capita on such technology(mostly old wavelan, arlan > or 802.11 pieces). More eastwards, in russia, they are even more popular. > Currently I am providing internet here for 150 computers myself via 10 > links and never got a point why to switch to telecom wire. He, he... Not bad. Make sense... > By ETSI regulations 25km link works on rural areas and 15km links are > very usable. US regulations allow 10x of ETSI EIRP Yes, that's true. But 10x is only 10 dB, and the new Aironet card using PrismII will probably gain ~10 dB via a better sensitivity (not sure about the numbers - Wavelan is -94 dNm @ 1 Mb/s). So, look into that... By the way, does anyone at Aironet knows when they will release product with the PrismII radio ? If I remember, they are still using the PrismI. Cheaper and better is desirable in my book ;-) > (to continue that 25km link - tested with 1mW , anything more than usual > ping causes link loss, ping ranges from 30 - 8000 msec, with 5mW it was > stable under load) What is the sensitivity of your cards ? > Nop, that was one thing - never liked that. I decided to release to kernel > only and be self-explanatory. User support is a terrible thing, if you > feel like obligated to do it. That's right ;-) > And afterall, it is Aironets job to provide support, at least 90% of > aironet products run on linux and bsd in eastern europe, they should move > themselves too a bit and organize/provide support. Yes. At least, some of their engineers are on the mailing list. > Wireless extentsions: > To my eyes these are data and nowadays, when linux goes to desktops, there > should be more generic interface to them, not only connected to wireless > but more general, about SNMP mib abstraction level. For aironet, there are > about Nx10^2 of them and there is no other way to manage to get all of > them at user knees. Yes. Wireless Extension doesn't even attempt to do that, it only try with the most common one. > Unfortunately sysctl+proc is a bloat compared to what it provides. But > anyone is free to implement wireless extentsions (all neccessary data is > on aironet4500_rid.c, reading examples in aironet4500_proc.c with very > long comments pasted from aironets manual) and I am > very willing to test them on my variety of testing hardware here. That's what I will try to do. > It is a way harder for me to handcraft it on kernel level than it is for > userspace level to parse /proc/sys/..., When Linux kernel has about 1000 > drivers in it, there just should be found a bit more generic interface. > Statically coding meta-data into kernellevel code was good idea few years > ago, but not anymore, IMnsHO. My API is not perfect, but do work quite well. There are now a few apps which use this API, sign that I'n not totally wrong on it... > Layer between device and driver level: > there are for ISPs immediate needs from that layer: > 1. wireless bridging and AP ( together with multicast pruning :) ) > 2. getting tos,QoS and other such layers-levels info into > numRetries, useRTS, waitTxAck level options on tx and per node > stats/filtering on rx. Hum. Those tend to be implementation specific, so that's why I excluded them from Wireless Extensions. > Last point recalled me multicast. > Has anyone had any experience with 4800 and multicast audio/vide feed ? > At least 655-630-655 is terrible. Unusable for client-side upload. > Download is most part fine, 256kbps video starts somewhat jamming the > network. But, however small the mcast audio upstream is, from node-to-node > on single AP, they just kill each other and the network for > themselves(talking about condidion where nodes dont see each other at > all). Multicast = no flow control & no retries. As the capacity of the link change (depending on number of retries needed), you need to feed some conservative rate on the channel. Basically, you setup the client or the server to not send/accept rate above a certain threshold. If you read my Robus Broadcast paper, you will realise that contention between the transmitter and receiver is enough to get significant packet losses with multicast. A way to get around that is to increase dramatically the initial contention window. But for long links, not having any MAC level retries will hurt anyway. > I was looking trough amd API, their card has nicely just different queue > for mcast but not much more told. About aironet, 802.11, 4800, do they > have some number of kbps that there will be uploaded no problems ? No idea... > elmer. Jean --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Martins Medens <martins@rasa.latnet.lv> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 12:10:06 +0200 To: aironet@enkidu.cse.ucsc.edu Subject: Re: [Aironet] airo.o loads but does not find anything. help! Hello, The problem I posted about earlier has been solved. Thanks for help, Martins Medens ----- Martins Medens <martins@rasa.latnet.lv>@csl.cse.ucsc.edu on 02/10/2000 05:44:31 AM Sent by: aironet-admin@csl.cse.ucsc.edu To: aironet@enkidu.cse.ucsc.edu Subject: [Aironet] airo.o loads but does not find anything. help! Hello, The kernel version is 2.2.14 with some LRP patches applied. All compiles well. 'insmod airo.o' works. But the aironet card (tried PCI and ISA both) is not detected (/proc/aironet stays empty). What could it possibly be? Have anyone successfully created LRP floppy with 11mbit aironet driver? Thanks, Martins Medens ----- On Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 08:22:44AM -0800, breed@almaden.ibm.com wrote: Ok, there are two things to look at: PCI: Check that /proc/pci shows the card. Actually it may help if you sent me the contents of that file. ISA: Make sure that PNP is disabled. Also make sure that when you specify the io port you use the hex notation. For example 0x300 instead of 300. ben ----- Martins Medens <martins@rasa.latnet.lv> on 02/14/2000 04:56:33 AM To: Benjamin Reed/Almaden/IBM@IBMUS Subject: Re: [Aironet] airo.o loads but does not find anything. help! Hello, Thanks for hints. It helped. ISA card worked when the correct io and irq values were set. PCI card also worked. Can't understand why because it did not when I tried last week. So now I have aironet capable LRP floppy which is a good thing. Martins Medens ----- --__--__-- _______________________________________________ Aironet mailing list - Aironet@csl.cse.ucsc.edu http://csl.cse.ucsc.edu/mailman/listinfo/aironet End of Aironet Digest From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Sun Feb 20 18:28:16 2000 -0800 Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:28:30 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: support@metricom.com Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. (fwd) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002201759150.1702-100000@humanjunk.rage.net> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 337 Hey, I've been waiting patiently for a response. Can you please answer my question or get an answer from someone who does know? I just need to know what frequencies your 2.4Ghz system runs so I can run different ones. If I run at different frequencies than you then my packetloss will go away and I'll be happy. If I don't get a response and I continue to suffer bad connectivity I get grumpy.. And then I start calling the FCC regarding your 'part 15' noncompliance and the harmful interference your devices are causing in the 2.4Ghz band. I would appreciate a rapid response. -- Greg Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:06:04 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Support <Support@Metricom.com> Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. This didn't help. That FAQ did not answer any of my questions. Perhaps next time you can actually _read_ my message before answering. Now, can I please get a sane response or what? My original message is at the bottom of your form letter. -- Greg On Fri, 11 Feb 2000, Support wrote: > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:55:15 -0800 > From: Support <Support@Metricom.com> > To: 'Greg Retkowski' <greg@rage.net> > Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. > > Hi Greg, > > Here is an FAQ that may answer some of your questions. > > When will Ricochet2 coverage be in the SF bay area? > > We expect to roll out Ricochet 128 kbps service in multiple waves, > culminating in over 40 metropolitan areas by mid-2001. While we have not > yet published city names, we plan for the current service areas to be > included in the initial deployment beginning in the second half of this > year. This would mean commercial availability by the middle of next year > (2000) > > Does that mean (the Bay Area) (Seattle) (Washington, DC) will be getting it > first? > > We have not yet determined the order in which cities will be deployed. > > What are Metricom's deployment plans for additional metropolitan areas in > the United States? > > Metricom has begun Right-of-Way acquisition activities in 11 major U. S. > metropolitan areas. They are: Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, > Houston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Phoenix, New York, and San Diego. > > What will the new modem cost and can I trade in my current modem? > > We are currently talking with various potential manufacturers, and will > announce pricing with the commercial availability of the next generation > modem and service -- we expect the modem will cost between $249 and $349. > We are also in the process of developing an upgrade program for current > Ricochet customers, and will provide that information as soon as it is > available. > > Will I be able to use my existing modem on the new Ricochet2 network? > > Yes. In fact, current modems will experience an increase in performance > with Ricochet2 of up to double over the current Ricochet service. However, > to experience the full performance of Ricochet2 customers will need to > purchase the next generation modem. > > > Will there be a price increase on my Existing Ricochet Service to get the > higher speeds from the Ricochet2 Network? > > Pricing for Ricochet2 will not be announced until the time of commercial > availability; however, the monthly fee will be higher for 128 kbps service > than it is for our current 28.8 kbps Ricochet. > > Will I be able to connect up to my USB port? > > Our implementation requires a Windows98 USB upgrade from Microsoft, and we > do expect to have USB support when Ricochet2 becomes commercially available. > > > Will USB work on current Ricochet devices? > > No, the current modems were not designed to support USB. > > Will a PC card modem be available? > > We are currently investigating a variety of form factors for Ricochet2 > devices, and expect this to be an ongoing process as the service evolves. > > Regards, > > Ricochet Technical Support > #814 > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Greg Retkowski [SMTP:greg@rage.net] > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 11:51 AM > > To: support@ricochet.net > > Cc: wireless@rage.net > > Subject: Frequencies for new 128K service. > > > > Hello, > > I would like some technical information regarding your 128K service you > > are rolling out. > > > > We live in the Santa Cruz mountains and our sole method of internet > > connectivity is a homebuilt 2.4Ghz wireless link down into Santa Clara. > > Over the last few months we've noticed our performance slowly degrade; > > this month it has become unbearibly slow. > > > > One of the possibile causes is the rollout of your new 128K serivce, > > which uses the 2.4Ghz band... It may be interfering with our link. > > > > Would it be possible for you to send us a list of frequencies you are > > using in the 2.4Ghz band so that we can change our systems to avoid use of > > these frequencies? If you do not have this information would it be > > possible for you to put us in touch with some of the engineers who do? I > > would appreciate any help you can give us in this area! BTW if you'd like > > to see what we've done see http://www.rage.net/wireless/ . It may be a > > touch slow, for the reasons I outlined above. Thanks! > > > > -- Greg > > > > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net > > Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From Support@Metricom.com Mon Feb 21 16:24:54 2000 Return-Path: <Support@Metricom.com> Received: from ocean.metricom.com (ocean.metricom.com [204.154.204.233]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04644 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:24:49 -0800 Received: by ocean.metricom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <1GC6R5M0>; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:20:32 -0800 Message-ID: <8AB74F1DDD4DD311A4CB0004AC4CA9DA011F9533@ocean.metricom.com> From: Support <Support@Metricom.com> To: "'Greg Retkowski'" <greg@rage.net> Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. (fwd) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:20:28 -0800 Return-Receipt-To: Support <Support@Metricom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" X-Keywords: X-UID: 11992 Status: RO X-Status: A Greg, The 128k system operates in the 902-928 MHz and the 2.4 - 2.483 GHz ISM Bands and 2.3 GHz C&D Bands. We, however, haven't started deploying the system in the Bay Area, with the exception of a small test network. As with out current system, we are part 15 compliant. My question would be is your homemade system part 15 compliant. If it were, it should be able to accept interference from other devices using this band and complying with all rules under part 15. We don't appreciate the threats and will not respond any further on the issue. Regards, Ricochet Technical Support -----Original Message----- From: Greg Retkowski [mailto:greg@rage.net] Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2000 6:28 PM To: support@metricom.com Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. (fwd) Hey, I've been waiting patiently for a response. Can you please answer my question or get an answer from someone who does know? I just need to know what frequencies your 2.4Ghz system runs so I can run different ones. If I run at different frequencies than you then my packetloss will go away and I'll be happy. If I don't get a response and I continue to suffer bad connectivity I get grumpy.. And then I start calling the FCC regarding your 'part 15' noncompliance and the harmful interference your devices are causing in the 2.4Ghz band. I would appreciate a rapid response. -- Greg Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 12:06:04 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Support <Support@Metricom.com> Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. This didn't help. That FAQ did not answer any of my questions. Perhaps next time you can actually _read_ my message before answering. Now, can I please get a sane response or what? My original message is at the bottom of your form letter. -- Greg On Fri, 11 Feb 2000, Support wrote: > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 11:55:15 -0800 > From: Support <Support@Metricom.com> > To: 'Greg Retkowski' <greg@rage.net> > Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. > > Hi Greg, > > Here is an FAQ that may answer some of your questions. > > When will Ricochet2 coverage be in the SF bay area? > > We expect to roll out Ricochet 128 kbps service in multiple waves, > culminating in over 40 metropolitan areas by mid-2001. While we have not > yet published city names, we plan for the current service areas to be > included in the initial deployment beginning in the second half of this > year. This would mean commercial availability by the middle of next year > (2000) > > Does that mean (the Bay Area) (Seattle) (Washington, DC) will be getting it > first? > > We have not yet determined the order in which cities will be deployed. > > What are Metricom's deployment plans for additional metropolitan areas in > the United States? > > Metricom has begun Right-of-Way acquisition activities in 11 major U. S. > metropolitan areas. They are: Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, > Houston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Phoenix, New York, and San Diego. > > What will the new modem cost and can I trade in my current modem? > > We are currently talking with various potential manufacturers, and will > announce pricing with the commercial availability of the next generation > modem and service -- we expect the modem will cost between $249 and $349. > We are also in the process of developing an upgrade program for current > Ricochet customers, and will provide that information as soon as it is > available. > > Will I be able to use my existing modem on the new Ricochet2 network? > > Yes. In fact, current modems will experience an increase in performance > with Ricochet2 of up to double over the current Ricochet service. However, > to experience the full performance of Ricochet2 customers will need to > purchase the next generation modem. > > > Will there be a price increase on my Existing Ricochet Service to get the > higher speeds from the Ricochet2 Network? > > Pricing for Ricochet2 will not be announced until the time of commercial > availability; however, the monthly fee will be higher for 128 kbps service > than it is for our current 28.8 kbps Ricochet. > > Will I be able to connect up to my USB port? > > Our implementation requires a Windows98 USB upgrade from Microsoft, and we > do expect to have USB support when Ricochet2 becomes commercially available. > > > Will USB work on current Ricochet devices? > > No, the current modems were not designed to support USB. > > Will a PC card modem be available? > > We are currently investigating a variety of form factors for Ricochet2 > devices, and expect this to be an ongoing process as the service evolves. > > Regards, > > Ricochet Technical Support > #814 > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Greg Retkowski [SMTP:greg@rage.net] > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 11:51 AM > > To: support@ricochet.net > > Cc: wireless@rage.net > > Subject: Frequencies for new 128K service. > > > > Hello, > > I would like some technical information regarding your 128K service you > > are rolling out. > > > > We live in the Santa Cruz mountains and our sole method of internet > > connectivity is a homebuilt 2.4Ghz wireless link down into Santa Clara. > > Over the last few months we've noticed our performance slowly degrade; > > this month it has become unbearibly slow. > > > > One of the possibile causes is the rollout of your new 128K serivce, > > which uses the 2.4Ghz band... It may be interfering with our link. > > > > Would it be possible for you to send us a list of frequencies you are > > using in the 2.4Ghz band so that we can change our systems to avoid use of > > these frequencies? If you do not have this information would it be > > possible for you to put us in touch with some of the engineers who do? I > > would appreciate any help you can give us in this area! BTW if you'd like > > to see what we've done see http://www.rage.net/wireless/ . It may be a > > touch slow, for the reasons I outlined above. Thanks! > > > > -- Greg > > > > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net > > Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ > Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From Support@Metricom.com Mon Feb 21 21:41:47 2000 Return-Path: <Support@Metricom.com> Received: from ocean.metricom.com (ocean.metricom.com [204.154.204.233]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07740 for <greg@rage.net>; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:41:46 -0800 Received: by ocean.metricom.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id <1GC6R59W>; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:37:19 -0800 Message-ID: <8AB74F1DDD4DD311A4CB0004AC4CA9DA011F9537@ocean.metricom.com> From: Support <Support@Metricom.com> To: "'Greg Retkowski'" <greg@rage.net> Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. (fwd) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:37:11 -0800 Return-Receipt-To: Support <Support@Metricom.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" X-Keywords: X-UID: 12011 Status: RO X-Status: Greg, We are a frequency hopping system that hops across the entire band with a very low duty cycle on any specific frequency and thus a very low probability of interference. Are you using 802.11 equipment or what part 15 equipment are you using? Regards, Ricochet Technical Support #603 -----Original Message----- From: Greg Retkowski [mailto:greg@rage.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 12:37 PM To: Support Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. (fwd) On Mon, 21 Feb 2000, Support wrote: > The 128k system operates in the 902-928 MHz and the 2.4 - 2.483 GHz ISM > Bands and 2.3 GHz C&D Bands. We, however, haven't started deploying the > system in the Bay Area, with the exception of a small test network. I am aware that your system runs in the 2.4 Ghz band, and I am also aware that the band ends at 2.4835. Could you please be more specific about which frequencies in the 2.4Ghz band you are using? Your small test network happens to be in Santa Clara, where our other base-station is located. > As with out current system, we are part 15 compliant. My question would be > is your homemade system part 15 compliant. If it were, it should be able to > accept interference from other devices using this band and complying with > all rules under part 15. We don't appreciate the threats and will not > respond any further on the issue. Our system is part 15 compliant. It has worked flawlessly for over a year. We have used other 2.4Ghz equipment here (phones, wireless network cards) and have never had problems. If it is not your equipment it would be simple enough to rule out by tuning our radios to a frequency you are not using; all we need to know are the specific frequencies you use which you continue to fail to provide. I recieved no response to my previous reasonable requests for information, as my messages were never replied to sensibly. Apperently the tactics I used the third time got someone's attention and I did get a response. I didn't like saying what I said but if thats what it takes to get an answer from someone than so be it. -- Greg Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Mon Feb 21 20:39:23 2000 -0800 Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 12:37:29 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> X-Sender: greg@localhost.localdomain To: Support <Support@Metricom.com> bcc: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: RE: Frequencies for new 128K service. (fwd) In-Reply-To: <8AB74F1DDD4DD311A4CB0004AC4CA9DA011F9533@ocean.metricom.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002221149110.15014-100000@localhost.localdomain> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 338 On Mon, 21 Feb 2000, Support wrote: > The 128k system operates in the 902-928 MHz and the 2.4 - 2.483 GHz ISM > Bands and 2.3 GHz C&D Bands. We, however, haven't started deploying the > system in the Bay Area, with the exception of a small test network. I am aware that your system runs in the 2.4 Ghz band, and I am also aware that the band ends at 2.4835. Could you please be more specific about which frequencies in the 2.4Ghz band you are using? Your small test network happens to be in Santa Clara, where our other base-station is located. > As with out current system, we are part 15 compliant. My question would be > is your homemade system part 15 compliant. If it were, it should be able to > accept interference from other devices using this band and complying with > all rules under part 15. We don't appreciate the threats and will not > respond any further on the issue. Our system is part 15 compliant. It has worked flawlessly for over a year. We have used other 2.4Ghz equipment here (phones, wireless network cards) and have never had problems. If it is not your equipment it would be simple enough to rule out by tuning our radios to a frequency you are not using; all we need to know are the specific frequencies you use which you continue to fail to provide. I recieved no response to my previous reasonable requests for information, as my messages were never replied to sensibly. Apperently the tactics I used the third time got someone's attention and I did get a response. I didn't like saying what I said but if thats what it takes to get an answer from someone than so be it. -- Greg Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From mtaht@picketwyre.com Wed Feb 23 09:46:32 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from lugosi.picketwyre.com (IDENT:root@lugosi.picketwyre.com [207.104.7.190]) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29525 for <greg@rage.net>; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:46:32 -0800 From: mtaht@picketwyre.com Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by lugosi.picketwyre.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00823; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:46:29 -0800 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:46:29 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: mtaht@lugosi To: albert wijaya <albert@address.com> cc: greg@rage.net Subject: Re: need help and support In-Reply-To: <199908011418.HAA28122@hipmail11.gohip.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10002230931100.798-100000@lugosi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 12061 Status: RO X-Status: I wouldn't mind a little trip to indonesia... how about you, greg? :) I would be glad to provide you with an exact copy of our working disks... however I must point out that our stuff is somewhat old. It's linux 2.0 based. We can also custom configure you a pair of disks if you can supply us with the type of network cards you are using and their ip addresses. We are working on a new generation of the software and hardware... on the hardware front, P75 machines with 1GB hard drives are available used in our area for 119 dollars, and the pain of squeezing linux onto a floppy pales in comparison to "just" installing redhat. As the LinuxRouter project has been stagnant for almost a year now we have been looking for another small linux distribution to adopt for the future. Redhat isn't it, but it's a great place to do development. If you are not heat/space/outdoor constrained, I would suggest building an out of the box redhat machine, adding the appropriate driver(s), and calling it a day. We are testing the Aironet 4800 series cards on this platform. They supports 802.11 and up to 11Mbit half-duplex over short distances. ------ mike "Corporate America will own Linux only after they pry my cold, dead hands off the keyboard" - Davish On Sun, 1 Aug 1999, albert wijaya wrote: > Dear Sirs, > > I am Albert, just started an internet cafe in my country Indonesia. > I have read about your success in implementing wireless router. > Through this opportunity I would like to ask for your valuable > favour to advise me on how to link my cafe with my ISP which is > 2 to 3 miles apart on a wireless router. If possible with detail > components and estimated prices. I also would like for ask for > a copy ( full set ) of the LRP you use to run your internet > connection. > > Hopefully, if we succeeded in connecting my ISP with my cafe, > if it is ok with you, we can be partners in this particular > business, since the market is very wide here. So it is just for > you to decide. > > Last of all, i am looking forward to receiving a favorable reply > from you soon. > > Best Regards, > > Albert > MKO - Internet Cafe > Jl.Moh.Yamin no.23 > Pekanbaru - Riau > Indonesia > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Your Address and Ours on the Internet. Get Free Email at http://www.address.com > From greg@screamingslave.rage.net Thu Feb 24 17:14:44 2000 -0800 Newsgroups: ba.internet Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:14:38 -0800 From: Greg Retkowski <greg@rage.net> To: Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@comix.santa-cruz.ca.us> Subject: Re: Metricom 2.4Ghz interference? In-Reply-To: <nkb4bs84ucpv2e6uiuap0ede999s118b9k@4ax.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000224165404.15462K-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> References: <38B2F779.F3714E7B@rage.net> <nkb4bs84ucpv2e6uiuap0ede999s118b9k@4ax.com> X-Microsoft-Free: Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 349 On Mon, 21 Feb 2000, Jeff Liebermann wrote: > Is the make and model of your hardware a secret? Most 2.4GHz point to > point hardware will do 10Mbits/sec. If all you're getting is 1Mbit/sec > when it was working, there's something fishy. Its a pair of Arlan 655's which out of the box did a max datarate of 2Mb. They are stepped down for reasons you'll see below. For more information than anyone would want to know about our wireless equipment see http://www.rage.net/wireless/. > Traceroute shows that your wireless ISP is hmmwv.net. The web page claims > they have customers up to 13 miles away. How far away are you? That 'customer' is us. Reality is that we've got a partnership with this guy whereas he's got a rooftop we can see and ADSL service; we (in the mountains) put up the wireless system and everybody splits the ADSL bill. We are the only network/wireless antenna on his roof. Oversubscription on the wireless side is not an ussue, as we are the only network/wireless antenna on his roof. the whole 'wireless ISP' stuff on the hmmwv website is all marketing (along with the PTR record he stuck us with). > Metricom poletops use three frequency bands. The 900MHz ISM band for the > older RF modems, the 2.4GHz unlicensed ISM band for the news RF modems, and > the new 2.3GHz frequencies for poletop to poletop. Since your unspecified > hardware is in the 2.4GHz band, then you should not have any problems with > the 915-928 or 2.3GHz transmitters. I won't discuss the current debate > over 802.11b (11Mbits/sec) inteference with older systems. I finally got in touch with someone there; they are using freq-hopping throughout the whole 2.4Ghz band; although they also said they have very little traffic passing on their test network so it should not be a problem. > unspecified 2.4GHz radio probably has an RSSI (receive signal strength > indicator) used for aligning the antenna. Most of these can be set to scan > for sequences and therby be used for measuring interference. Find the RSSI Unfortunately the Linux driver for our cards does not support access to this data, and because of the age of the cards the developers of the driver have moved on to the newer Arlan units. At this point I'm assuming 2.4Ghz is falling victim to its own popularity. We've played with different frequencies and datarates and gotten some of our performance back but its still not where it was before... My roomate is working with some of the newer cards, which have higher power outputs.. I suppose if you can't carry on a conversation in a crowded room you just scream louder. Ah well, time to move on to the 5.7Ghz band. -- Greg Greg Retkowski Mail: greg@rage.net Raging Network Services URL: http://www.rage.net/ From mtaht@picketwyre.com Wed Mar 1 20:06:43 2000 Return-Path: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by screamingslave.rage.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA17346 for <roomies@rage.net>; Wed, 1 Mar 2000 20:05:22 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: screamingslave.rage.net: mtaht owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2000 20:05:22 -0800 (PST) From: <mtaht@picketwyre.com> X-Sender: mtaht@screamingslave.rage.net To: roomies@rage.net Subject: Network. Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1000301200345.17340A-100000@screamingslave.rage.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Keywords: X-UID: 12959 Status: RO X-Status: Pinion reboots for no reason I have not tried a new network card. The new pinion boots into redhat 6.1 but does not recognise the wd card. I have to take mark to SF. Both machines are in my office, the new box is on. ------ mike WORLD USHERS IN 1900 WITHOUT INCIDENT FEARS OF Y2K PROBLEMS COMPLETELY GROUNDLESS (http://www.drudge.com) From - Fri May 26 11:26:13 2000 Received: from llama.ackley.net ([170.1.68.2]) by mail.speedera.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id FALPNC35; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:52:39 -0800 Received: from localhost (mike@localhost) by llama.ackley.net (8.10.0.Beta12/8.9.0) with ESMTP id e240qIG14909; Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:52:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:52:18 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Taht <mike@ackley.net> To: Greg Retkowski <gretkowski@speedera.com> cc: mreagin@incyte.com, hummer@hmmwv.net, jason@ackley.net, efbasham@cup.hp.com Subject: Re: our ongoing connectivity nightmare In-Reply-To: <38C01E12.77A29184@speedera.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.21.0003031644340.11462-100000@llama.ackley.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 527 since I have been unable to reach hummer, and the task of converting either gaveup or pinion2 is too daunting to complete by 6:30, I would suggest you came home after work and we procede on a backup plan in a sane and reasonable manner. Until then I anticipate being under my car with my cell phone at hand. 207.104.7.187 (pinion2) is the closest to being ready - it has a correct sendmail file, aliease, /etc/passwd is correct, /etc/shadow is not, the /home/httpd directories are copied over.... name service is copiued from screamingslave and converted to 8.x.... I just got gaveup to at least boot, but it gets no ip addres. It (literaqlly) took slappinjg it on the side to get it to come up. my truck now has keys, it is out of the driveway, I am under my new car trying to figure it out, in the car port, until said car-port goe away tomorrow. On Fri, 3 Mar 2000, Greg Retkowski wrote: > Here is my plan: > > Go over tonight and check alignment and condition of the equipment in > santa clara. If neither of these appears to be a problem then we > should temporaraly give up on getting connectivity working, plunk a > linux box in and reroute the 160 subnet to it. Then we can have some > breathing time to determine the next course of action. Amplifiers have > been reccomended and perhaps these may fix the problem (?). I'd like > to do this tonight at ~6:30 if at all possible. > > My thoughs on a course of action if wireless connectivity does not > come back are as follows: I've had michelle researching some > contingency plans. Apparently there is an ISP at 85 and lark which may > have line of sight with us. Moving the wireless here cuts our distance > in half, not to mention cutting it by the noisiest half! And if it > still doesn't work they have very affordable fractional T1 prices. > 256K is $495 install and $550/mo for 256K, $380 for 128K; and > upgradeable to 1.54Mbs. These days equipment (router and TSU) should > be around ~1K used. We may be able to defer cost by reselling service > to others in redwood estates. > > With cards and amp's I'm sure our costs are approaching those of a > more conventional copper-pair equivelent; and I'm _positive_ a > copper-pair solution will be more reliable then the wireless has been. > > Mike, please let me know when you've got a vanilla redhat box set up > with screamingslave's IP configuration (IPADDR, subnet, gateway), at > least one non-root username/password login and SSH server installed > ready to go. I will find a crossover ethernet cable and we will > reconfigure pinion's unused ethernet interface with a 161 address and > connect this new machine directly in. > > Everet, please confirm your availability this evening or arrange with > your roomate to allow us access to the facilities. Please also reboot > pinion when you arrive home as we managed to crash it last night. > > -- Greg > > Mike Taht wrote: > > > > We've now basicaly been down ince sunday. Our email, at leat, is spooling > > up at ackley.net (Ijaon told me it was at 450 messages lat night) (my > > "s" key is sticking) I just ordered a pair of 2.4 Ghz amplifiers. The > > earliest we will ee the amps will be tueday. We are out of luck until > > then, and I have some thoughts for us getting somke connectivity back and > > also also some thougths. > > > > 0) We should replace both cables to the antenna ( corrosian, wear (at leat > > up here) > > > > 1) we can probably convince jason's box (via a /etc/hosts entry) that > > "screaminglave.rage.net" is actauly connected via the ricoshit and get the > > spooloed up mail delivered, albiet lowly via that method. > > > > 2) We can get a 56K modem and do the same either via a modem off of > > hummer's box or via a national service (my vote is a commercial ervice - > > I have every indication that I will be traveling a lot in the near future) > > > > 3) as for websites, I don't car so much about them, but I do have at leat > > one box (quick) that could be moved down into the valley to serve up web > > pages. > > > > As for fater household connectivity in the short term I have no > > idea. Personally, o long a the email goe through, I'd like to take > > advantage of this repite from the rigor of the internet and do something > > constructi e, like go skiing, , or clean the house, or write a short > > story, or finih my taxes. > > > > so I'm going to try and order up a connectiionv via a national isp > > (mindspring?) and wait for a locksmith to arive, and after that I will go > > and try and acare up a modem from halted, and I await any replies before I > > head out to do this, which probably won't be before 3. > From mtaht@soda-pop.corpnet.sel.sony.com Fri Jan 8 15:27:22 1999 Return-Path: <mtaht@soda-pop.corpnet.sel.sony.com> Received: from mail2.fw-sj.sony.com (mail2.fw-sj.sony.com [198.93.2.18]) by rage.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA14345 for <greg@rage.net>; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:27:22 -0800 Received: from mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com (mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com [43.134.1.111]) by mail2.fw-sj.sony.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA28629; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail2.sjc.in.sel.sony.com id PAA16962; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (mtaht@localhost) by soda-pop.corpnet.sel.sony.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA17601; Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:23:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 8 Jan 1999 15:23:14 -0800 (PST) From: Mike Taht <Michael_Taht@corpnet.sel.sony.com> To: "Steven B. Lord" <sblord@dickdavis.com> cc: mtaht@picketwyre.com Subject: Wireless Router/Starting companies/Stock/Tech In-Reply-To: <369647FD.ABCF5EBA@dickdavis.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.02A.9901081434360.17028-100000@soda-pop.corpnet.sel.sony.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 51 > O.K. I read it again and this time it makes more sense. Aside from your being > offered jobs to existing firms, :) Gotta meeting with one such next week. > have you given thought to forming your own > firm and exectuting this idea en masse? (I'm sure you have - just curious...) We've put a lot of thought into the idea. There is enormous potential in the budding wireless market, but there are problems, too. I'll send you a followup this weekend. A teaser: Ever hear of Heathkit? > Along the same lines, is there one (or two) major vendor the idea relies on? In this case, the manufacturer "aironet.com" is the only vendor we can get the radio cards from. A newer technology which does 11Mbit/sec (slightly faster than standard ethernet) wireless has strong potential, with 5+ vendors to choose from. This tech is used in the cyrix web padd (something else you should check out). Currently this tech is distance limited to 300 ft, but this is fixable with amplifiers. > Is that vendor(s) public? Doesn't look like it. (btw, they are looking for a product marketing manager... :)) > My thought is this: You guys are certainly onto > something with wireless bandwith of this size, and it will only get better. > What to do from here? Start a firm and hit the street to hawk it, or leave > that to someone else and buy positions in the firms that make the idea > possible in the first place. In the biz this is called active vs. passive > investing: You approach things from a different perspective than I do, fer sure. My concerns up til now was trying to get the hardware to a cost 1/6th of the retail price of the "competition". Companies like netapp and cisco are operating on incredible hardware margins - selling stuff for 8x their cost, typically... By using largely recycled parts we got ourselves to 1/3 retail. Volume buys and a deal with airolan might cut it to 1/5 retail. Serious volume, a major engineering effort to build a single board computer (SBC), weatherproofing, etc, might build a box that would cost 4M to manufacture the first unit, and some fraction thereof thereafter - eg getting below my current unit cost (1250) would take SERIOUS investment and sales volume. The biggest cost is in the current radio card, which is why I'm investigating alternatives. I really like the new harris card (11Mbit/sec), but the first generation gear is distance limited. Anyway, you imply different question - what kind of effort could we get "funded" and get leverage on... and I haven't the foggiest. I, personally, favor the Ben & Jerry's recycled hardware appproach, and a grassroots/heathkit distribution style, but I doubt that's sexy enough for the street. (It's cheap, though. Probably why I favor it) Your thoughts are appriciated. > active = high payoff/high cost/high time committment/low leverage > passive = lower payoff/low cost/low committment/high leverage A combination approach is what I prefer at the moment. Get a good radio board. Build the router hardware out of commodity components. Use Linux as cheap, general purpose router software, reliable, heavily customizable, and sell the results at some 4-10x margin. Bay does it. 3Com does it. Ipsilon/Nokia does it. Why not us? >I'm not a techie but it doesnt take a > genius to see where the world is going. Erm... well, at least on this coast, bi-directional 6-10Mbit cable is becoming a reality, at a very low cost. (at least until the cable operators get a monopoly - their pricing reflects some hopelessly weird accounting of their real backend internet backbone costs. It would not surprise me if the cable companies were looking at "real" returns in 7-10 years or more based on some very optimistic projections of backend costs and sales of advertising, etc) But what do I know? @Home's stock is doing extraordinarily well. But, as I write in the howto - nobody, but nobody, has telecom costs as low as in the US, and the wireless solution costs the same outside of the US as here... so I would look to international markets as the biggest potential market, rather than the US, at least for backbone aspects of the technology. I do have some thoughts about methods of deploying in the US in high densitiy internet areas (eg, the Valley) for advanced users... that, I'll talk about in a separate email. > One question, though - does the FCC > have to sign off on this stuff? The 2.4 Ghz band is open to the "public". The new 5.7 Ghz band is particularly sexy, most products that use it will be introduced sometime this year.... A good coverage of the change in the legal "terratorial" landscape is at: http://www.dcbs.umd.edu/~clay/U-NII.html. Back in the days of 1000000W AM radio stations was when the FCC established its current policies. The spread spectrum stuff is so far from that model that even the government is starting to recognise it, so there is strong hope that large portions of the "air" will remain free for use by anyone.... > What about interference from your local PBS > affiliate or ham radio operator? Spread spectrum has a heap of natural resistance to interference. However, the 2.4 area has been opened up to wireless phones and the like, so it is possible this area will become crowded in the next 5 years. > -SBL > > Mike Taht wrote: > > > Linux Journal is gonna probably republish the wireless thing in some form. > > > > It's at: http://www.rage.net/wireless/wireless_howto.html > > > > There is a possibly more readable version coming online at: > > > > http://www.rage.net/~greg/wireless/wireless_howto.html > > > > Both jason ackley (a security issue) and greg/me got into www.lwn.net > > this week! >